2021-04-12 Westside Salon III

Westside Salon III

Participants: Blaze, Catalina, Cassie, Inanna, Jay, Lascaux, Nisha, Shawna, Spade, & Zebastian

Location: Echelon Falls @ The Circle (Westside, babes)

Date and Time: April 12, 2021 10:15 pm

Summary: Justice, morality, the ethics of being dead - social change, free speech, the irrelevance of gods - bad ideas, good intentions, and taking the scenic route to hell. All this and more - including ongoing missed connections, clash of concepts, and even a little knifeplay. Just another Salon in Westside.

---<Zebastian>---------------

Is it a quiet night? Not /exactly/ - but these Salon things, they ebb and flow - and even though the time expressed was /this/ time, for people who are filtering on through? Why, they might get the sense this salon has been going on for a little while -- bright young monsters mulling about, laughing - a positively fae looking willowy blonde Stevie Nicks type in gauzy dress dancing around with Mae, of all people - while a moody eyed chick with a Disdainful Princess vibe laughs rather meanly with a sharp featured smirking young man in $800 sneakers, both of whom are en route to the exit. The vibe? Lightly chaotic.

Sort of like Zebastian, who is half-kneeling on the meeting-gone-ping pong table -- dressed in black-and-bleach-stained marbled jeans cuffed over tactical boots, and an oversized battered biker jacket atop a torn up black shirt with faded text that reads: 'I AmBien The Best Person I Can Be'. Hair? Long and loose and rather tangled -- as he hits ping-pong ball up against the wall, laughing as he chatters along; "Mae, no Mae, turn it up---"

...the music is loud enough. Wait - wait - they //are// having a Salon tonight, not just a regular party - =right=?

---<Nisha>---------------

Nisha is currently passing the -vibe- check, handing over a Glock 19 with a silencer attached; spare mags, and a set of handcuffs, pepper spray, police baton and a hand taser into a box. -Where did she keep it all?-

Apparently when notified the theme was Justice, the gangrel decided to cosplay as a fictional oppressive cop in a skin tight outfit. Complete with a blue metal latex dress, nazi-chic police style hat, and latex boots. In truth it was a -mockery- of justice, or a sense of fashion fetishism for authority figures, completely high brow - unless confused for a police stripper. Blowing a bubble and popping it, while she waited.

Once de-armed but not de-clawed, the female gangrel happily joins the group. Heading over to Zeb, "Good evening, Z!", offering a mouthful of knives in a bright smile. "I -don't- believe in justice, at all. I think it's a silly concept and just a fancy word for revenge.", starting off the salon topic with a dreaded opinion that could be quite controversial. Hands on her hips while posing in her decadent outfit. Mirror sunglasses riding low on her nose, tiger eyes taking in the scene.

---<Blaze>---------------

Blaze thinks for a moment. "Perhaps there is both artificial justice and natural Justice. Natural justice happening when because of someone's actions they are forced to take the consequences and artificial justice happening when one is too impatient for natural justice."

---<Cassie>---------------

Cassie arrives looking about as devastatingly stylish as ever, the soft clicky clacky of her thigh-high Louboutins echoing in her wake as she makes her way into the lounge,lips shrugging softly as she chews on a piece of bubblegum. The tall, red-bottom heels are paired with sheer stockings, a hip-hugging, high-waisted pencil skirt sporting a few old-navy inspired details at the front, and a slinky, /very/ snug high-necked top with long sleeves. A dainty choker around her neck and a cute, dark-red beret resting atop her head with a slight slant completes the outfit. (Ala this - https://i.pinimg.com/564x/93/4b/ba/934bba04b1ea7eb0d64d341fc9e085d8.jpg)

Glancing around at those who's already arrived, she allows something a feline smile to play over her pillowy lips for a moment when her big blues settle on Zebastian in the crowd, and the tiny Toredor quickly totters on over to the improv ping pong table with a teasing sway of hips exaggerated by the tall heels. "Hi, gorgeous" she titters in greeting once close enough that her little voice might actually be heard over the music, her smile quirking up a little more as she just watches him do his ping-pong thing for a moment, another little giggly sound escaping her as she asks "So... are you winning?" That's probably rhetorical. A flirt little smile and a dainty waggle of fingers are sent Mae's way is she should have time to look over amidst her dancing.

Nisha isn't overlooked... how could she be in that lovely outfit?! "Hey, Nisha. Looking good!" she chirps, giving the tiger eyed girl an overly overt little elevator-look ending with a faux-saucy waggle of brows and a soft, cheery giggle. Blaze is offered a sweet little smile and a "Hi" to go with the quick look-over of his outfit. There's no comment on the topic of the night from her side, yet, the small blonde seemingly happy to just listen in for the moment.

---<Zebastian>---------------

Attendees stowing weaponry at the security check by the front door? Not the most ... wild thing, that's ever happened at Echelon Falls - but the security person on the other side of the door who impassively accepts Nisha's small arsenal into a locked cupboard out there, they might be somebody's Ghoul. Only... Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Never mind that.

Zebastian, half-crawled on that table, smacks a ping-pong ball that goes flying to who-cares, because Zeb isn't paying attention -- Nisha, or more so Nisha's spirited outfit, has caught the Norwegian's eye. Turning, he sits on the edge of the table - head tipped as he seems ... baffled, by what she says? No! Just considering -- turning, giving Blaze a vague wave of the ping-pong paddle as he listens, then makes a low clicking noise.

"What is it, yeah? About justice, Nisha, that you don't think is believable -- what do you mean, when you say 'justice' verses revenge?" Asked with a light chime, before Zeb gestures to Blaze; "Like what is artificial verses natural? Does impatience make something less natural?... Because, where I am, yeah?..."

Zebastian pauses, long enough to lean over and give an air-kiss to Cassie, wiggling his fingers as it's tossed over - before he laughs at her question of winning, and gives her a wink. So an affirmative. Zeb always thinks he's winning. He's an absolute optimist -- calling her over.

Also chattering on, as he chimes airily to Nisha and Blaze, picking up conversational thread; "Justice exists -- there are things, in the world, which are /just/, based in a symbolic order of what is right or what is wrong, and harmonious with that. Justice is in hand with morality, no? And the moral world is a system, yeah, of means, which allow one's particular interests, and also the interest of the /other/, to be satisfied and realised. It is a collective, social contract. So, the question is, how do you see that contract? What satisfies you?"

---<Nisha>---------------

Nisha finger waves Cassie as she nears, the gangrel however has to stay sharp and starts thinking and formulating a response to both Blaze and Zeb.

"Now that is an interesting argument, which I think I'll have to concede and disgust some mentally. Natural justice versus artificial justice. Natural I would assume is death, the great equalizer. Rich, poor, young, old, healthy and sick, sinner and saint - death claims us all. This is natural justice, no? But in that regard we are kindred who can not die via natural means, and so you might be right. Artificial justice might be needed for our kind who defies the law and order or the natural world. I agree with that point, Blaze. Well played.", giving him a wink.

Turning to Zeb, "Justice seems so foreign a concept. In example a little girl is killed by a murderer, it's horrible. I think we can all agree. Often Justice is capturing the killer, imprisonment and sometimes the death penalty. I'd argue justice in this case seems more like a punishment or vindictive behavior. Eye for an eye. The little girl is still dead, the crime is not undone. There is no justice, merely revenge.", trying to explain her point of view. "I'm not sure justice is hand in hand with morality. I believe it can be, but it can also be departed from it. Depending on personal ethics. I don't believe in a moral world but a world of freewill. Making something a crime has never stopped the crime even with knowledge of punishment for it."

---<Jay>---------------

Jay hasn't taken up the time to dress up for tonight, that or he just didn't feel like it which is totally not out of character for him. He's got on a somewhat loose tanktop, baggy-ish cargos adorned with dangling chains from its waistband, and boots - all black, as usual. Weapons offered at the entrance, though it's not far-fetched to assume he has one or two more hidden on him, because you can't be too careful these nights. A tip of his bucket hat to security before properly making his way in the lounge.

The first thing to notice about him is probably that he's devoid of his Caitiff company, and probably should've brought him along now that he thinks of it, half-expecting a big crowd that's usually present during the Salon. Did he come a bit too early? No matter. Jay does the routine greeting and dapping up friends and familiar faces, and only eyes the unfamiliar face in the room, Blaze.

His attention is quickly taken away by Nisha's fashion style for tonight, which after an appraising once-over, he bothers to make a comment on. "Looking good," he remarks, and then his eyes go to Cassie. Eh, the Beverly Hills gal always looks on point. To Zeb, finally. "Small crowd, think it's a good idea to send Cruce & co. an invitation to spice things up?"

---<Inanna>---------------

Inanna is back in punk uniform, spiked leather jacket, ripped black denims, a ripped white tee with an anarchy symbol on it. Chains hanging off either hip attached to a wide belt, and her side-shave done up in a stylish if side-tilting mohawk. Moving around in the room, listening carefully, moving in towards the discussion group in a tigthening circle.

"There's no justice in this world but what we create. The natural world holds no justice. It's a created concept, like money, or equality. Doesn't mean it's not real or not important, but we made it. And we decide what it is. Like Nisha says, it can be vengeful, it can be about punishment. But more and more in progressive circles in the kine world, there's a trend towards prison abolition and restorative justice, working on what can be done right for those harmed first and foremost."

---<Cassie>---------------

Cassie cocks her hips slightly, chin lifting and head turning a little, eyes glancing to the ceiling for a moment as she listens and ponders what she hears. Looking back to the group "I mean... Justice is kinda the practical application of Morals, right? It's a social construct, not something inherently natural." She looks between the others... not exactly her specialty, philosophy, but she /does/ remember /some/ things from college. "Like.... morals as we think of them today, that wasn't even a thing until somites in the late middle ages, right? It's a construct meant to better allow co-existence in larger groups." A beat. "Right?"

Jay is given a bright smile and a cheery little "hey" when he joins the group, and Inanna one too along with a discreetly curious little look over.

---<Zebastian>---------------

"...Is the sunbeam or flame not natural?" Zebastian chimes quietly to Nisha, but does not comment further on what she says yet -- attention snagged by Jay, who gets a raised hand in greeting, before he laughs at what is said, nose wrinkled with amusement. "Oh, they know the invitation is open for all Anarchs, babes -- they just never stop by. I'm sure whatever they are or are certainly /not/ doing, is taking up all their capacity, no?"

A wink for Jay, then Zebastian turns back - only to give Inanna a slight double-take, looking her over with an easy albeit dreamy smile, ping-pong paddle lifted and waved in greeting. That dreamy smile widens as he listens to her, nodding slowly - studying her features, then nodding in agreement to both her and Cassie, after she speaks.

"Yeah, exactly - justice as action, as defender of the moral order, that social contract - there is the restorative aspect of justice, of acknowledging that something enacted was -wrong-, on a base level, on a shared collective understanding, of what kind of world we want to not only see, but /exist/ within -- and the repercussions, the justice that is enacted as a result, arises as a consequence, that brings together those who are harmed in saying 'we will not stand for this kind of unjust, oppressive violation of our will, our right to exist'."

Zebastian swings his legs, still perched on the edge of the table - paddle set aside, as his hands gesture abstractly; "What Cassie says, about the evolution of morals - ethics - whatever, yeah? Shows how revolutionary they can be -- we /know/ what is =right= for us, to exist without oppression or threats against us based on nothing more than the thickness of our blood or uncontrollable affliction given by random chance, or just the desire to not be pressed under a boot - and it is important, no? To protect that - and each other."

---<Spade>---------------

Spade arrives unfashionably late, which is the Southside version of Westside's fashionably late. Maybe traffic was bad, why does he even drag himself out to these long-stemmed-glass-full-of-blud socials anyway? Unknown reasoning, all that can be concretely divined is that the fangbanger who normally goes no further North than his own bar has driven his ass over here and arrived. At his waist are the glint of various weaponry which he hands over to nobody and pays no attention to. Rules? Those are for everyone else. His hands are in his pockets, which pulls his open shirt back, revealing the handles of knives and everything else quite blatantly. He moves sideways once inside, giving himself time to circumvent the room and take in everybody who is present, before approaching any groups to engage in conversation.

Once satisfied that there's probably nobody here that he intensely dislikes, he heads over to the group which always nucleasises around Zeb at these things, and listens, making eye contact and upnodding in greeting to people that know him and will meet his gaze, "Sup?"

---<Inanna>---------------

"If I remember my intro to philosophy right," Inanna offers up. "Morals are considered to be what is innate to us - and there's a lot of discussion what, exactly they entail. Ethics is how our morals are applied to society - the social contract our moral demands. From those two flow our sense of right and wrong. Of justice, of restoration, of vengeance." She exhales. "Eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth is all well and good as a means of preventative justice - and as Nisha noted, it has been less than successful. We have always been at war, peace was never an option, and so on and so forth. A whole lot of words spun forth to justify - and isn't that a choice word - the oppression and aggression of those othered than us. We see it among the kine, and we see it among the Kindred."

She licks her lips and looks around. "Hi, I'm Inanna. I work with a lot of marginalised kine on mutual aid and shit - finding their own justice and rights in a society that fucks with them." She spreads her hands, then gestures to Zeb. "Everyone here is here because at some point we felt the oppression of our fellow licks, direct or indirect, yeah?" Glancing over at Spade as he approaches, she gives him an upnod in greeting. Rolling her shoulders. "Anyway. I'm just a young idealist. I'm sure there's plenty of shit I'll get wrong, but that's why I'm here - to learn."

---<Nisha>---------------

Nisha might of done too many drugs and partied out of college, but she listens to each person posit their views - all well spoken. "So I would then question, do you believe that -us-, as flawed creatures. It's our responsibility to uphold justice?", she asks a bit curiously.

"I'm not sure, that justice should be in our earthly hands. From the mythology, I'm not sure I trust divine ones either. Caine was punished for Abel, maybe that was justice? I don't know. Yet it seems odd to me that via this justice, everyone in this room has been effected by this curse. Someone else's crime. So I guess if you believe in justice it validates our experience and that sometimes the innocent get targeted. Because in a perfect world, it would only be Caine being punished. Instead of all us sentenced in his place. Maybe that's why they say justice is blind?", shrugging at that.

"It's a weird topic, and I think you all have valid points. I just don't agree with it. Something upstairs doesn't compute with the subject matter. So I don't fully back it.", waving to Jay, Spade and Inanna.

---<Jay>---------------

"I mean, true, but maybe a direct invitation will give them the proper motivation? Dunno, talking smack to Hollywood's getting a little old, feeling like Santa Monica should get a piece of it as well," says the Brujah to Zeb. Diss tracks coming soon? Jay does not seem like he's interested in the ongoing convo about justice and whatnot though, so he steers away from the group talk. Cassie gets a nod and a weak smirk from him, then. "Hey there, princess," he greets her, wiggling his hand a tiny bit at her direction. "How's Beverly Hills doin these nights? Haven't gotten myself to visit there for a while now." Spade's arrival catches his attention, the Southsider receiving a dap up and a 'yo' before his gaze shifts over to Inanna. "Nana, good to see you came around."

---<Zebastian>---------------

"/Exactly/--" Zebastian chimes agreeably with Inanna, nodding with enthusiasm; "That line of argument, that 'it has always been this way - there is no hope - no hope for /you/ - submit to the boot, not because it is /right/ - not because we care for you, not because we are protecting you - but because it is =might='."

Shattered attention of the Norwegian snags on Jay, who he grins at, head tipped. "Why would I go around making a point to drag them along? They got the memo - and besides, yeah? I got better stuff to do." A wink, then he turns -- leans forward, smiling at Inanna in that dreamy way of his; "My name is Zebastian, by the way - hello, pleasure, your /vibe/ is like =totally=, Inanna - thank you, a pleasure." Beam! Then he mms and nods to what she says-- only to get distracted by Spade. Up-nod given to him in greeting, as well as a curious once-over. Vibe check? Maybe.

But Zebastian is smiling, looking back to Nisha - nose wrinkled with amusement, his head tipped to the side and finger idly twirling a lock of hair around his finger as he considers her. Surprised at what she has to say? Quite possibly. There is no interruption though, until the end - where he hums and adds; "It depends, no? On how self-loathing one is; what we have is a burden, a /heavy/ burden, one never to be forgotten - but it's also a strange-gift to perceiving the world from the other side of a mirror."

Zeb laughs softly, then bats at the air in the Gangrel's direction, eyebrows wiggled as he chimes; "But, oh Nisha, of course you don't understand or agree - that's okay, everyone's got their own hangups - but that is why the Tower called you, yeah? It's more of your scene, no?"

---<Inanna>---------------

"As far as the mythological goes," Inanna looks to Nisha with a slight grin. "In the metaphorical sense, we must attack and dethrone god. We must invade hell and free the condemned. Whether you think there's a certain literalism to that, or what, if you believe in the Curse of Caine, then, fuck, yeah, the god that cursed him and his offspring was a fucking prick. Sins of the fathers visited upon the children. It makes it ever the more important for us to create our own justice. To decide who we are and who we want to be. I'm a nihilist, I don't think this universe has an inherent meaning to it. There's plenty of philosophers who have posited that kind of shit like the mic drop that is Epicurus' problem of evil. Christians will throw out a free will cheat, but nah, fam. It'd be outright irresponsible for a just and loving god to let all manners of evil be perpetrated. There's a fucking paradox in a god that both knows absolute good and yet is too insecure in their ability to uphold it so they let their creation do evil out of free will. It's a hack, a cop-out." She objects.

Another breath - she's flush and warm and her beast is not exactly out and playing. "Mortal justice may be imperfect. Immortal justice might be worse, or better. But good is not the enemy of perfect, and just because something is impossible doesn't mean we stop trying. The universe, as they say, bend inevitable towards the arc of justice. But that's not entirely true. Not unless we fight for it. Not unless we constantly define what justice is," She points at Zeb. "And put our foot down, like my man said." She quirks her lips. And gives a friendly upnod to Jay as well.

"Wouldn't miss it. Justice is a passion of mine." She assures him, with a grin.

"Getting a general strike going in the US would be hard. Getting reparations would be hard. Getting the fucking system to shift would be hard, but we use ALL tools. Be it kine or kindred, within the system or outside it, we can make change. And if it becomes too intolerable, if we start screaming with pain and we have NO recourse at all? Shit," She gives a shrug. "Then that's when we start tearing shit down for real."

Zeb's little compliment has her inclining her head in thanks. Rolling her shoulders. "Personally, I think that if there is a Caine and shit, then sic semper tyrannis," She notes. "Fucker hasn't been around for, what... Depending on who you ask, some six-seven thousand years or, like... Several hundred thousand. Birth of Humanity and all." She sighs. "Point being, we can look to what went before for inspiration, either for you know... Fucking good shit, or more likely, a read on what NOT to fucking do."

---<Cassie>---------------

Cassie noddles along with what Zeb says, adding in a lil comment. "Yea, it's not like.. a static thing, right? A couple hundred years ago, it was commonly accepted that people of colored skin was somehow 'less' - less human, less worth, whatever - than the colonizers. There was no such thing as racisms, cause everyone, by today's standards, were racist. Simply from a lack of understanding. I really feel like there's a lot of connotations between that and how some of our kind are looked upon by parts of our nightly society." A glance over to Nisha, hmmming and pondering for a second. "I dunno if it's our responsibility, as such, but I also think that -someone- has to push things to establish 'a new normal'." A little shrug of one dainty shoulder.

The greeting from Jay makes the tiny blonde look back his way, tongue playing with a pointed canine behind the slightly parted lips of her smile. "It's been quiet enough, but a little too 'silence before the storm' sorta vibe for my liking, I'll admit. Hopefully unfound worries, but..." a little shrug of her smile at that. The events of her first year as a vampire hasn't exactly done much to reassure her that a little calm means it'll stay that way. "How are things in Venice? You should come by some time, I have something I'd like to talk to you about."

Her attention is stolen by an arriving Spade, then, a little glance and an amused snort at the all the weapons tucked into his pants before her eyes flit up to meet his, smile wide - and a little lopsided - and big blues shimmering. "Hey, you. Wasn't sure you were gonna show up tonight."

Attention returning to the discussion at hand, she falls quiet and just listens to what the others have to say about tonight's topic, a few minor corrections made to her outfit and quick check-up of her nails as she languidly chews her gum.

---<Spade>---------------

Spade might primarily have eye for the latex and the slinky dressed of the group, but he manages to catch and return various upnods, including the dap with Jay, which draws a fist from a pocket momentarily. Spade's vibe? Pretty chill, Hollywood is notably absent this evening after all. He's taking in the nuance of the scene rather than listening closely to each person, and came into the discussion late regardless. Inanna's holding court right now and he just nods a couple times to whatever her points are that he particularly agrees with, presumably. "Shit's been run by old, rich, white fucks just because for too long. There's always room for an iconoclast to create some rubble to build newer and better out of." Cassie's greeting gets a little more indepth and he gives her a slower upnod with a feral grin, "Traffic on the ten was hell, some fuck crashed. Burning wreck, lanes closed." He takes a hand out of his pocket to thumb over his shoulder, in the vague direction of 'east', as if people needed to know from which direction he's come.

---<Zebastian>---------------

Wait-- wait... Zebastian - whose attention is, as most know, a fleeting and exceedingly fractured thing - has tuned in to radio Inanna, and by the look of hyper-focused captivation? Is catching a /vibe/, man. Kid even forgets to blink, damnit -- just listens, expression bright and bright and brighter; nodding, out of time, with what one might even imagine is reverence. Does he interrupt? No. Hell, he even looks a little tongue-tied -- shy? Bashful? Get it together Zeb--- and he does, just, laughing softly and pressing a hand against his chest; "...Not a man - just a Zeb - but I understand, agree --beautifully, beautifully expressed, Inanna."

...Zebastian. There are other licks here. A blink - finally - and the Norwegian startles a bit; glancing around, almost surprised-- nodding, belatedly, to what traces of Cassie's contribution remain, head bobbed as he tries to follow; "Yeah, and in our realms? Tonight, the way that Caitiff, Thin Blood and Fledgelings are treated by some? It can be abominable. Nobody should be punished, for sins they did not commit."

A vague gesture to Spade - in agreement, but Zebastian is withholding chatter - glancing back to Inanna, then the rest of the Salon group. Trying, trying to focus -- failing to see the newcomer Lascaux or the rest of folk around the edges -- fingers tapping against his knee, in a tattoo of three times three.

---<Nisha>---------------

Nisha blows a big bubble, as big as she can, then pops it. Almost smacking her face with it before going back to chewing and recalling it all into her mouth. "Just a different river, running towards the same ocean, Zeb.", she replies towards his tower question. "Same mantra different words ... There wouldn't be a sky full of stars. If we were all meant to wish on the same one.", licking her teeth and turning to Inanna.

"Good seeing you again. Passionate as ever. One day we might go down that rabbit hole of theology, but I don't want to go on a tangent tonight.", taking a bow to exit gracefully from the conversation and say hello to some folks. Mingling with the crowd. Wandering off happily.

---<Inanna>---------------

Inanna looks to Cassie. "I feel like you and me, we're like, bringing the complimentary tones here. Singing our truth like the finest choir." She notes. "So, good talk." She's... Well, mostly spent, now, until someone else puts in another penny. So now, she rubs a hand at the back of her neck, and steps slightly aside, notably a little closer to the admiring Zeb, to signal that someone else can take center stage if they wish. She doesn't know Lascaux, but this is a party, so she gives him an upnod, too. "Thanks, Just a Zeb. A Just Zeb?" She muses, to the other vampire. "There's always parallells, you know?" She suggests, with another little shrug.

She looks to Nisha at the pop. Grinning. "But the sky IS full of stars so we can reach for it, right?" She punches one leather-clad set of knuckles into the palm of her other hand, fingerless gloves with little studs helping signal her willingness to get into a tangle. "You know what, I am one-hundred percent up for a theology debate sometime." She agrees. "it would be fucking great."

---<Jay>---------------

"Calm before the storm vibes? Yeah, I get how you feel. Don't worry though, girlie, you know we all got each other's backs, and there's a lot of us," he says to Cassie. Jay rubs his chin as he speaks, pondering meanwhile, and pondering some more when she asks about Venice, to which he smacks his tongue like he's hesitant. "Shit... Ant Man's being Ant Man, and I'm sitting ducks over there, but it is what it is. I help him out, and his boy helps my ass out in return. Young LGND, you heard of him? Kid's a fucking celebrity on the come up, he's made me a ton of money already." The aforementioned name is a new, young, and very talented rapper whose name has lately shown up on news and around social media, especially around the hip-hop forums and communities, most of the time seen around the company of Jay Wilde and likely under the same independent label as him. Jay then bobs his head. "I'll come and visit soon, sure. Any dress codes?"

---<Zebastian>---------------

Zebastian laughs -- proper laughs at what Nisha says, nose wrinkled and hands thrown up in the air. "/Different/ -river-? //SAME// =MANTRA=?!" Woah there, cowzeb; no need to let those reigns loosen and ride on with unbridled spirit -- but there he is, slapping his hands down against the edge of the table and laughing, laughing, breathless and yes, a touch wild -- enough air sucked in to those dead lungs so he can motormouth on; "OHmyGOD, they got you /twisted/ -- if you can't tell the difference between the Tower structure and the Movement -- girl, I know you haven't a Sire to guide you though, but babes you're going the //wrong way//, faen! Check the roadmap -- you're heading straight to hell!"

Laughter, proper laughter--- keep it together Zebastiaaaan...

If his Clan was up for question... One can make some informed guesses. Hands paw at his face, needless breath not caught, so much as laugher reeled in -- wait, what's going on? Zeb clicks his tongue, bones poppin' as he jerks his head back and shakes it -- then turns, giving the other licks collected near by a baffled look, like 'omg, /crazy/ right??'.

---<Lascaux>---------------

Lascaux's muddy gaze follows the interplay of discussion, trying to glean what he can about what he must have missed from the response to it, but nobody's saying /much/ in response. "No," he says, though, in response to what was probably a rhetorical question. "Th'stars don't exist because of our ambitions or our idealism, an' the idea that th'universe is centered around human ideas of morality is exactly th'trap that we fall into again an' again. I tried t'get into it a little bit last time, but there's an idea that we use symbolism an' social order as a way of repressing the base horror we feel at confrontin' the intrusion of th' monstrosity of a world /without/ symbolic order on our psyche. So no - the stars ain't there so we can reach for 'em. They exist for their own reasons. Just like th'things we try t'repress and subvert with th'idea of justice still exist as urges within all'a us whether or not we care t'confront 'em."

---<Nisha>---------------

Nisha plops a seat down next to Cassie, "That's the problem with believing in absolutes Zeb. If it's justice that we all carry Caine's curse and burden, assuredly Caine is going to hell and all of us with him. I'll see you at the bottom, bro. At least I'll be in good company.", apparently not worried and giving a look like she was politely dropped the conversation.

Nisha leans over and whispers something to Cassie, a free hand gesturing over QT's outfit. Apparently a fan of it.

---<Lascaux>---------------

Lascaux gives a loud snort at the mention of Caine, but says nothing further, rising from his seat and slipping over to mutter something to Zeb, before resuming a seat somewhat closer to the group at large.

---<Cassie>---------------

"Hey! Dun say white and rich like it's somehow bad things! Racist..." Cassie comments to Spade, crossing her arms loosely below her breasts and sticking her tongue out at him. "Dun hate the player, hate the game." A sassy little hair flip to punctuate her words, which are quite obviously said mostly in casual jest, but there's a sense of seriousness, too. For probably obvious reasons. Inanna is given an amused little smile and little wriggle of her nose to go with the faint nod, seemingly in agreement with them being complimentary tones, but clearly not minding.

Looking to Nisha, then. "Maybe.." she muses. "..but not all the rivers include killing off a whole part of our 'population' based, from what I can gather, on what amounts to mostly superstition, as a must-happen to reach their destination." A friendly smile and another faint shrug of her shoulder, and a barely withheld giggle at Zeb's reaction and comment, before looking back over to Jay. "Yea, ofc I've heard of him." she confirms with a little grin and a faint, humored, roll of eyes. "What I want to talk to you about might include him, too, actually. Probably will, if it's something we wanna look at more." A little grin at the question about dresscode. "Depends on where you wanna meet. No shorts, no sandals, dun look like a bum. Should be a pretty safe bet."

Returning her attention to Nisha, she leans in a little when whispered to, smile pulling a bit wider and her pert nose crinkling faintly. She noddles and whispers something back.

---<Zebastian>---------------

Zebastian laughs -- proper laughs, again, at what Nisha says -- another crunch of bones as he jerks his head in her direction, expression that of sympathy-pain. Angry? Not at all - he just looks ... very spirited, as he bells on; "Babes, //twisted// babes -- I'm a fucking post-Hegelian!"

...what does this mean? Don't worry, Zebastian is chattering; "History is the transcendence of the contradictions of each epoch! No either/or -- neither/no -- it's all //interconnected//! A network of multiplicities that are NOT arborescent! Check the =vibe=!" Oh, so that clears it all up. Sure.

Wait, what? Zebastian's attention -- wild, manic, spirited -- gets snagged on Lascaux, head tipped and expression bright, bright, bright. What? He just laughs, swats at the air dismissively, then turns and looks back out -- clicking his tongue teasingly at Cassie, and wiggling a finger as she speaks to Spade. Commentary? Nah. Pistons firing all firing way too fast to get that motormouth to run at coherent speed.

No seriously tho; what's going on? Zeb's eyes ping about, curious and alert.

---<Inanna>---------------

"What I said at the start," Inanna nods to Lascaux. "The universe is vast, uncaring, and meaningless. That's why we gotta inject our own meaning, find our own hopes for tomorrow. And if we can find beauty and hope in the stars, then fuck it, it's as good as any god." She shrugs. Glancing back to Zeb, watching him with some interest, and glancing over to Cassie and Nisha, raising a slight brow. Looking to Jay and then Spade, but for now, it seems, she has mostly said her piece and is withdrawing from the conversation as well. She just hasn't found HER whisper partner yet.

---<Spade>---------------

Spade's just standing there, although when Zeb screams he reacts by leaning back a little and squinting, as if that closes the ears from loud noises. After Zeb's outburst he makes a noise with his mouth, a quick little suck on his teeth and then moves his attention to Cassie. With a very insubordinate grin he shrugs back at her, "Bunch of old, rich bastards fucked the country. But who suffered? The little people. You can't trust the people at the top, we'd all be better off without them." He rocks back on his heels when Zeb goes off again and arches an eyebrow at the Norwegian, "Yo Zeb, you're getting a bit hyper man, you need to sit down and take a few breaths in a paper bag or somethin'? Close your eyes and think of Mae." No move made by the Southsider, beyond the slight motion of his standing posture, but his attention is very fixed on Zeb all of a sudden, piercing one-eyed look and all that.

---<Lascaux>---------------

Lascaux shakes his head. "You're getting into phenomenology," he says, in response to both Inanna and Zebastian, apparently. "And phenomenology has its benefits, but it totally rejects th'traditional use of objective research. And so you're ignorin' an entire field, in this case, multiple ones - neurology, psychophysics, an' so forth, just to say, 'th' universe is this way because I want it t'be.' The universe is vast, sure. But t'say it's uncaring, when we got fairly proven examples of beings that are powerful enough t'be /called/ gods, ain't accurate, if y'ask me. I think it's just that we don't understand th'moral reality of those beings. Maybe we /cain't,/ cause it's too differn't from our own moral reality. But if we at least start by breaking down how we come about those moral ideas, really look at them, and look at th'abject parts we don't want t'look at instead'a just where we think there's eauty an'hope, we can do better'n those in th'past have done."

His head turns slowly toward Spade, and he shakes it slowly. "Don't," he says, low.

---<Jay>---------------

There's a momentary turn of his head when Zebastian lets loose that seemingly unrestrained laughter, eyes wandering about for a second to figure out the source of this Malkavian amusement, but then Jay figures Zeb's just being Zeb and shifts his attention back onto Cassie. He glances at Spade upon her remark, snickering as he does, saying. "She's not wrong," but doesn't bother elaborating. Stares at the Toreador again, flicking his chin up. "Yeah... sounds good. I'd rather you not roll down to Venice, so your place then I guess?" He grins, elongated canines faintly showing. "So at least I can find the effort to properly dress up. Can bring LGND along if you need him, or just to entertain some of the Beverly Hills denizens who might be a fan. Afraid he's not a blood bag though, I need the boy at his healthiest shape at all times if possible."

---<Zebastian>---------------

Hype, hype -- Zebastian is all hype -- and then, is that Spade rolling on up with his totally chill demeanour? Yes. Do they lock eyes, share a moment? Yes they do -- and yeah, Zebastian was opening his mouth to give something that, given the impish glint in Zeb's eye, might be... Loud? Yeah. Only think of the moment, Zeb - think of Mae...

There is a pause. Zebastian does not close his eyes - nor does he find a paper bag - but he does... Smile, tip his head to the side, and click his tongue - hand lifted, waved abstractly between him and Spade as he chimes in a soft murmur; "Aw, don't you worry about me, comrade -- I'm just coasting, yeah? With the flow, the flow, the flow of all things..."

See? So chill, so flow -- so looking over to Lascaux, with a dreamy smile. "Hey! Have you met Inanna?" Oblivious or uncaring to any single worded suggestions that were made -- his voice soft, gesture gentle as he indicates Inanna, then turns to her - chiming on in that melodic way of his; "You've got a really keen sense of things, yeah? So how come's it we've never had a time to chat before -- where you been hiding?" A head dip, then he gestures to Lascaux and Spade; "Oh, forgive me - have you been introduced? These are Lascaux of the opossums - he's a Lacanian -- and Spade of Southside - he's a creative cultivator for their Warehouse District contingent initiatives and beyond."

---<Spade>---------------

Spade upnods once Zeb replies, not breaking that eye contact until then. At which point he turns to Lascaux and with a noticeable unpleasant edge to his tone asking, "Don't do what motherfucker? I'm just watching the... vibe." There's no notable eye contact made with Lascaux, just that brief immediate glance with the question, and Spade's reverting back to the group at large. To Jay he grins in a much more genuinely friendly way, "I hate the game too, but that doesn't mean the players that benefitted from a broken game get to keep the ill gotten gains."

---<Inanna>---------------

"Just because there are beings of vast power - even to the point of approaching godhood - does not mean they ARE the universe. The universe don't give a shit. An intelligence with an agenda, that's different. Again, look at the problem of evil," She notes. "Why call them god." She short-circuits. "And if they ARE on such a different scale and level that we are, in essence, powerless against them, then their motivation don't really matter none, because if they do act we're gonna be stuck cleaning up the mess like after any natural disaster. So, ignoring them - to the point that I might be - is entirely a reasoned and logical stance." She licks her lips again, leans back, and regards Lascaux. "Now, neurology, that's interesting. Anything worthwhile is worth bleeding for, worth suffering for, but how the neurons otherwise tick and how we regard things, get conditioned, that's interesting," She notes. "And I am all about looking at the ugly parts too, my friend. Just you know. We gotta have something driving us to the next tomorrow."

She exhales again, offering a small smile to Zeb, and gives a nod. "I met Spade. He threw me into the ocean," She offers, with some mirth, then looks between Lascaux and Zeb again. "And I know Jay, and Nisha, too. And know I know you two." Index finger flicked between the two. "I'm Inanna, Ina or Nana, if that's too much," She gives a little shrug. "Like I said, I been busy with the mortals, trying to help out there, figure out the networks, the beefs, the alliances... See how they can help rise above, at least for the moment, and alleviate some suffering here and there. Suffering might be necessary, might be fucking, you know. An integral part of the human condition or whatever. But it should have a purpose. Babies starving in Pico ain't got no purpose other than making the pressure rise so people are too busy to better themselves."

---<Lascaux>---------------

Lascaux just shakes his head; disagreement, maybe, with what Inanna says, but his lip's curled in disgust which suggests there's something other than that happening. "I got nothing else to say here," he says. "I lost my appetite for ... debate. Some people can come in here and say whatever the fuck they want, ain't that right, Spade? But anybody else gets a little loud and they get /told/ to quiet down. I see how it is. I got no desire to waste my time sharing my hard-earned opinions and beliefs in a place like this." He turns on his heel and heads for the back door immediately.

---<Cassie>---------------

Sharing a few more whispered words with Nisha, giggling sweetly and giving a faint, cheery sorta noddle, she looks over to Spade and makes a little face at him. "-Some- of them did. Pretty sure plenty of less-than-rich people helped all that just fine. Hrmpf." Another peek-out of her tongue, everything said and done with a hint of friendly amusement and a pinch of sass, and then she looks to Jay, flashing him on of her weapons-grade smiles. "Yea, sounds good. Hopefully we can do something about that, with the rest of us having to worry about coming down to visit you. We'll figure it out, maybe just us brushing over things at first would be good, we'll figure it out." Her head snaps back to Spade, then. "They're -not- all I'll gained!" She squints her eyes a little bit and makes a little sound, but it's pretty clear that there's no actual hostility or anything, more like... mild, good natured exasperation. And maybe a little bit of genuine annoyance. Maybe.

The apparent spat between Lascaux and Spade seems to have gone over her head while she was chatting wityh Nisha, and she looks between the two, and Zeb, with a hint of confusion when the Kentuckian speaks a little louder and then turns to head for the door. Blinkblink. Wat?

---<Nisha>---------------

Nisha giggles at something Cassie said or the ongoing discussion with Anarchs and various personalities. "Ina you can't -prove- the universe is uncaring, it might actually care a great deal. That's an assumption. What I can say is, we aren't in heaven. We aren't in a sterilized environment in which only good things happen. No ... we got the whole gambit. The entire rainbow, the spectrum of experience. In fact, even though it's hellish and some of the experiences are painful and full of suffering. We weren't -denied-. Which is impressive for any godhead or whatever DND alignment you want to give. They gave everything, probably because we asked for it. Consciousness was likely curious and exploring itself.", pausing.

"Because on the other hand, imagine knowing something exists in our reality and being denied that very thing. We don't have freewill then, do we? We paid for the full game and now get sold DLC in increments. That's bullshit. So I'm rather grateful for the rose and it's thorns."

---<Zebastian>---------------

Zebastian just dreamily considers what Inanna has to say - perfectly comfortable with injecting himself into the conversation between her and Lascaux, although he seems disinclined to interrupt. That'd be rude! There is a few nods thought - possible agreement to the logicalness of ignoring indifferent and irrelevant gods, getting on with existence or whatever - or is it the part about anything worthwhile is worth bleeding for? Whatever the case, he seems appreciative of what Inanna is talking about -- the hyper air of earlier has ebbed away, but that focus does still seem a little ... shaky. Such are Zebs.

"The ocean... That tracks... Forgive me then, yeah?" Zeb chimes to Inanna; "For being late to the party -- but it is fortuitous, no? We get to meet now -- because there is /so/ much that can be done, and it would be amazing, yeah? If we could find time one night, to talk - about stars, neurology, sure -- but what it means, too, to have a purpose. Westside is wild with potential - we'd love to hear, yeah? What your vision is, for places like Pico and beyond. You have to meet Cassie, too."

Softly said with a smile, as he indicates Cassie and Jay over yonder -- before Zeb inevitably gets distracted, glancing back to Spade and Lascaux, doubling down on the tone of ... discontent? In the Kentuckian's vibe. Head tipped to the side - puzzled! Then he laughs softly, nose wrinkled as he says; "Anyone can share anything they wish, always -- but it doesn't mean everyone's gonna like it -- only that's okay, isn't it? Better to let it all flow..." Breathless sort of sigh, as Zeb twists a lock of hair around a finger and glances towards the ceiling.

---<Spade>---------------

Spade side-eyes Lascaux again with something like scepticism on his face, "You mean like you and the rest of Karner's cronies were doing the other time? Freedom of speech is all cool until someone's saying some shit you don't like? Whatever man, keep my name out your mouth." A hand comes out of his pocket, Lascaux has managed to evoke the third one, and Spade waves it dismissively at whatever Lascaux's point just was and he's turned back to the main group, but missing a decent chunk of conversation over the lack of focus.

---<Blaze>---------------

Blaze returns from whatever business he had on the telephone in the other room. His expression is serene and satisfied. He waits for a lull in the conversation and then introduces himself. "So, most of you don't know me, or h'ave heard of me but neva met me. My name is Reverend Blaise Mountbaden-Anderson of Clan Ventrue. I'm Minister at the Luciferian Church in Ollywood." He speaks with a noticeable London accent but mot with the sing-song nomenclature of a true cockney. "I'm ere because I want to change wot the Movement's doing in Ollywood. Or rather stat doing something uver than anging out and growin fat and lazy enjoing the status quo. I wanted to come ere to see ow your doing it." He looks to Zeb, "Not to interrupt the flow of the conversation buy I fought you all might like to know Oo I am and wot I'm about.

---<Lascaux>---------------

"You don't know what you're talking about, and you're too stuck up your own ass and too dumb to care," Lascaux says to Spade with a bark of a laugh - and then he's out the door, letting it /slam/ shut behind himself.

---<Inanna>---------------

Inanna raises her eyebrow at Lascaux's obvious disgust. "That bad? Geeze, I guess I better focus group my arguments better." Looking to Zeb for answers. "What'd I say?" Looking to Spade, since Lascaux addressed him direct, questioning brow raised at him too. "You know the fuck that was about?"

She sighs, and looks between Jay and Spade and Cassie. "Game's rigged, and half the players are part of it being rigged, I think it's eminently reasonable to at the very least throw some fucking shade, you know what I'm saying?" Giving another shrug. "Choice is to run with the rigged game, or try to change the rules, try to tear that shit up. Can even do more than one at a same time. At least that's what this mouthy bitch thinks."

She looks to Nisha, though, interest piqued. "Aight, fair point. Far as I can perceive, universe doesn't give a shit. But my perspective is limited, as Lascaux said," She nods after the leaving man. "And I will try to keep an open mind, mind. But my experiences so far has told me that godhood and morals are aspirational first and foremost. You gotta be able to be moral without a god. You gotta decide who you're gonna be when nobody's watching. You feel? And that's when you face your true self. Staring into the mirror or the abyss or whatever the fuck. Ultimately, I don't NEED no god or other entity to tell me who to be - but I can draw on what has been said, in informing my morals, my ethics, and my choices. Yeah?"

She exhales softly, and smiles to Zeb, nodding in agreement. "I'd love to talk at great length about that. Nothing a bitch loves more than the sound of her own voice," She assures him, with a small smile.

Then Spade answers the question she asked by going off at Lascaux, and she leans back. There's no popcorn, alas, but her eyes are wide as she considers the potential confrontation.

Blaze's arrival gets a quirk and a brow, and a look to Nisha and Zeb, whom she's apparently appointing tonight's moral compasses.

---<Spade>---------------

Spade's just getting back to the group after the little spat with Lascaux, turning to Inanna to shrug eloquently, so much meaning hidden in that simple lift of shoulders and facial expression. But Lascaux apparently can't take a dismissal with poise and has a last jab from all the way across a loud room before slamming the door. Spade's response is a blindingly quick turn on his heel, where did that knife come from? Presumably his waistband, but it's now quivering out of the door across the room, where Lascaux was once standing, having been thrown there by a Southside 'Toreador' pushed one too many times. He huffs a sharp exhalation of breath, it might've been spitting on the floor, if he bothered to make the saliva. He turns back, hands going into his pockets again, just as suddenly the picture of a chill vampire, "I dunno what his malfunction is," the eventual answer to Inanna, "But he rates Karner Blue's asshole five outta five stars on Tripadvisor so I wouldn't give much of a shit if I was you."

---<Jay>---------------

A scratch of his head as he watches Lascaux speak his mind, ignorant as to what's happening, but the man is suddenly storming out of the room. Jay squints, looks around, and then eyes Spade. "Man, you gotta work on your social skills or whatever. At this rate you're gonna scare off a lotta people than you should, sheesh," he shakes his head after that remark, sucking his teeth in to add some expression to it. Jay has his focus taken by Blaze's introduction, nostrils flaring in amusement of... something, or a number of things, rather. "Blaise as in Johnny Blaze, yeah?" He gives the Ventrue a once-over. "You sound... weird. The dialect. No offense. What's this about changing the Movement in Hollywood, though? You got me interested. Think Abrams's a bitch as much as we do?"

---<Zebastian>---------------

Oo - focus pulled back in, as Zebastian listens to Inanna. No interruptions, except at the end; "//Tell// me about it." Zebastian laughs, hand swatting the air near Inanna after her quip about bitches loving the sound of their own voice. So self-deprecating. There is a low mmm, then he nods - more serious, albeit dreamy. "We will make time, soon, I hope, to talk in droves - forgive me, I get all over the place at parties; so much noise, so much to follow--- yeah, but yeah, I think there is something interesting here."

Little beam of a smile, then Zeb's attention - fractured, natch - splits over to Blaze -- eyebrows going up at the mention of Hollywood, then laughing softly as he asks his question. A glance around, then Zebastian mmms and tips his head to the side. "How do we do it? Collectively, of course -- we live in a post-Baron society, you know? True leadership isn't about hoarding personal power, it's about duty to the -people-. Each of us are stronger, through our shared interests in mutual concerns - when we have a problem, we know, because we have created the network of mutual-aid and connection, yeah? That we can rely on each other to address---"

Abrupt stop.

Zebastian turns, and looks at Spade as that knife thunks into the door of the discreet exit over yonder; and he blinks. Without a word, Zebastian stands - smooths the wrinkles his his jeans, and glides over to where that knife is. A short inspection takes place; back turned to the group. Absolute stillness and silence.

...is... Zebastian... Angry?

---<Nisha>---------------

"Depends Inanna, yeah ... I'm just going to say yes. But things become a lot more complicated if you discover your an avatar for a god already without your knowledge. That your experience directly feeds your higher self or consciousness for it to learn.", Nisha almost growls, but it's due to excitement and not anger.

"First a lot of god hate exists, for various reasons. I don't need to cover them all, I'm just going to say it's likely valid. However, everything in the observational universe goes through development cycles. Fetuses, children, adults. Kittens and cats, eggs and birds and snakes, larva and insects or fish. Plants develop, planets evolve, solar systems form. Everything after the Big Bang was in a process of development. Why is it, gods can't develop? Why can't our gods make mistakes and be learning as they grow. Each time they tried to fix a problem they only made it worse. Would you still hate divine source if it was a child and was fumbling as best it could and trying to do things right? That's one point. The other is ...", Nisha pauses.

"What if we are a collective but don't know it yet? A network of brains learning how to function together. Hating another person might be hating a part of you. Seeking justice, might be us seeking revenge on ourselves. Hypothetically. Just food for thought.", watching Zeb and Spade.

---<Blaze>---------------

Blaze looks to Jay. he takes his sunglasses off so the other man can see his sincerity. "I fink Abrams needs our 'elp to see that this peace won't last foreva and he needs to take a more proactive roll. Or --" He snaps his fingers, "Ee's goona lose the top spot in Ollywood just like that. Ee's not good for the movment the way fings are going."

---<Inanna>---------------

Ina raises a brow at Spade and the closed door with the knife, taking in the "Toreador"'s words as she glances to Jay, then Blaze once more. "That dialect is pure English Hollywood villain for sure," She agrees, with a little laugh. But Zeb is moving and before she can agree to a meet and some gabbing, her head canting to the side, her mohawk-sideshave-hybrid lilting a bit more to the left as she does so.

Nisha's words catch her attention, though, and she quirks her lips. "Alright. All of that sounds pretty damn cool, actually. I mean. Words for thought. But it does fall in under, you know. Intent versus consequences. They do say the road to hell is lined with good intentions," She notes. "But I will concede that it is fucking complex, and I would love to sit down with you, under the stars, and talk theology and the greater universe like we're stoned out of our gourds. Possibly even with us being stoned out of our gourds." She muses, and gives a little shrug, once more.

"So you're changing hollywood from the inside, is that it?" She asks of Blaze.

---<Spade>---------------

Spade gives Jay another one of those shrugs, but this one is a more vehement thrust up of the shoulders, "The fuck did I say to him? He's whispering shit at me so I told him to fuck off. I was even fuckin' polite." Being called a motherfucker is polite where Spade comes from apparently. The cholo in Spade is coming out a bit more now, the emotion pushing his accent deeper into vato territory, indicating he's faking a 'nicer' accent most of the time and this is the real Spade. He turns as far as needed to watch Zeb go over to the door, it's never wise to leave a vampire behind you, especially one acting like Zeb. Just keeping an eye out in case there's a case of his knife being returned to him ballistically.

---<Blaze>---------------

Blaze simply says, "I assure you. My sympathies lie wif you. Wot did Orwell say? "If there is any ope at all, it lies with the proles." " He gives Jay a salute and turns his attention to Nisha, "Ow you doing, lass? Your looking well-appointed tonight."

---<Cassie>---------------

"Previously ruffled feathers. Don't worry about it." Cassie tells Inanna with a small smile and a little flick of one hand, before covering her mouth and failing at stifle a giggle that almost explodes out of her following that last comment by Spade, looking to the fangbanger with amusement shimmering in her big eyes.

After a short moment of giggling it off, she nods along with a smile at what Zeb tells Inanna, looking between the two for a moment before she turns to look over at Blaze when he introduces himself, smile still wide on her plush lips. "Hello, Reverend. Cassie Alston. It's a pleasure meeting you." She chirps. He may or may not recognize the name Alston, but if he does he'll know that it's the name of one of LA's oldest and most iconic families. Not to mention powerful.

And theeeen her phone makes a muffled sound from inside her purse. Pulling it out and swiping over the screen, reading, she misses the whole thing with the knife and most of what conversation takes place just after. There's a little smirk tugging gat her lips at whatever it is she's looking at. After a long moment, the phone is put away and she looks back up while nibbling her bottom lip softly, listening catching back up to what people are talking about. Or trying to, at least.

---<Nisha>---------------

Nisha says "Are we supposed to hold Zeb back or ... do we allow him to seek justice on Spade for breaking the rules?"

---<Zebastian>---------------

What's going on? A lot of things are going on. Conversation - dialogue - tasteful techno played at a low volume - socialising and minor disputes on politics, philosophy and the nature of their inhuman natures.

Zebastian remains a tall, pale, black-clad slip of a thing with his back turned to the group - ignoring Spade, ignoring everyone - as he stares at the knife that is embedded in the discreet-exit door. He is ... he is very still. His expression? One would have to turn and take a peek.

Over in the corner of the disused bar where Mae has been puffing on a juul and sipping on some raw organic unprocessed free trade pink coconut water... There is a slight incline of her head in Zebastian's direction, as the Ghoul observes... And she... Perhaps looks a touch... concerned. But is she going over there to console him?

Fuck no. Mae's remaining half-obscured behind several hundred pounds of poured concrete polished to a luxurious shine.

---<Catalina>---------------

Catalina made a point of looking her best. That meant a suit. It meant the red blood-drop pin worn openly on her lapel, instead of tucked underneath it. It meant a black top under the rich grey, the splash of color on the soles of her heels matching the pin and her lip gloss, and it meant she was tugging on a pair of thin, black leather gloves as she moved in. And she had a faint smile on her face.

A polite smile. More polite than friendly, as she opens the door - pauses to look at the knife - and then at the room as a whole. An eyebrow lifts.

---<Spade>---------------

Spade turns back from watching Zeb stare at the knife in the door, "I guess the patterns mesmerised him." That's pretty normal Zeb behaviour after all. He upnods at Cassie, "You like that one huh? You can have it Cassie. Previously ruffled feathers is an understatement, that cunt needs to wind his fuckin' neck in, my patience for him is worn thin." His accent is slipping back from deep cholo back towards mostly understandable west coast American.

---<Blaze>---------------

Blaze leans in close to Jay's ear to whisper something.

---<Nisha>---------------

Nisha waves to Catalina, the gangrel was wearing a skin-tight latex stripper cop outfit with matching boots, mirrored aviators and a cop hat. She looked totally officially for some line of duty. Sitting next to Cassie, "Hey, you missed some of the action, but looking nice.", paying a compliment about her outfit.

Looking back to Spade and Zeb, the door and the knife. She didn't say anything about Lascaux. Merely running a tongue over her razor teeth.

---<Inanna>---------------

Inanna listens to Jay, but doesn't add to it. Still, she can agree with Spade - in certain circles, "motherfucker" is as flexible in its application as fuck itself, and having it be a radiant and positive greeting is not unusual.

Still, can't imagine that was what he meant.

"Yeah, I got the message eventually," Ina offers to Cassie, with another little shrug, and a furrow of her brow. Following Cassie's introduction. "Inanna. Of the Unwashed, yearning masses, striving to be free," She offers as her own introduction. She does recognise the name Alston, so she gives Cassie another one-over, and glances at the phone. But, fuck, it's the 21st century. She has a cell of her own hidden, so it's not like she dwells on it. Instead, Nisha gets her attention. "Tonight was all about Justice, wasn't it? Do we even need to hold him back?" She asks, and, well, she glances to Zeb as well. Which means she catches Catalina's entry, offering the other woman a smirk and an upnod. "You do clean up nicely," She offers to her. Then leans back in her seat again.

---<Jay>---------------

The Brujahs (yes Spade, you're not a Toreador) meet eyes as the Southsider tries to explain himself, but if Jay's bothered at all to what had transpired, he doesn't show. In fact, he's very nonchalant tonight, which is great because the last thing you'd want is another Brujah on the fringes of a frenzy. His eyes immediately hover over Zeb's lurking body there, though, fixated on him for a few seconds like trying to figure out what the Malk is doing, but again he doesn't show that he's bothered. No idea that his friend's fighting off demons over there. Maybe hoping that the demons win over him and the night gets more FUN.

But then Jay turns his attention to Blaze again. "Yeah, yeah. We all could use friends, and if you're being genuine, my advice to you's to bring your restlessness to your other Anarch compatriots in Hollywood. See if anyone shares the same... disgruntlement, and do something about it. Abrams is fucking us over just as much as he's fucking his own people. Anarchs shouldn't be fighting other Anarchs in the first place." He glances at the newest arrival, Catalina, and then back to Blaze.

---<Catalina>---------------

"Oh, I know" Catalina tells Inanna with a nod and a flicked eye over the taller woman "I was chairing a meeting and decided to take something a little less spirited. I may have come to the wrong place" She smiles slightly, moving to lift a hand to tap the knife handle "Now, I know I got frisked, so either the people on the door really just wanted an excuse, or someone's being an ass and bringing weapons where they shouldn't."

She grins, the smile obvious with the gloss instead of her normal, neutral tones "Really, do I have to start offering to provide security for these places? Then I'll get to be personally insulted when someone breaches it"

She gives Zeb a small nod. It's a lighthearted tone, but she's still taking care as she keeps half an eye on the child of Malkav.

---<Blaze>---------------

Blaze speaks up at Zeb, "So where did we leave it wif the subject of Justice?" He gestures to Catalina, "Perhaps your latest guest as something to say on the subject?"

---<Inanna>---------------

"Nah, this is good shit. Talk justice to me, Cat," Ina offers to the sharp-suited executive, with a little grin. Giving a nod alongside Blaze, as he invites her to join. "We did a little derail into the nature of divinity, courtesy of Nisha, but we're getting a lot of interesting perspectives," She offers up, with a small smile. "And we're meeting all sorts of interesting people tonight. Do you need introductions?" She asks, spinning her finger 'round. "I think I got everyone's name."

---<Zebastian>---------------

Zebastian does not seem to clock Catalina, even after her entrance was, well, right in front of him. Time stretches on - and on - and on -- and then there is an intangible click, and Zebastian reanimates into his easy, breezy, beautiful CoverMalk self -- one hand raised to idly swoop his hair over his shoulder as he continues a glide to the door, like he never meant to stop in the first place.

A hand grabs the throwing knife by the hilt - how fortunate - and Zebastian pulls back. Pulls again. Pulls a third time -- it is not lucky. A blink, and Zeb brings his other hand up to try and finesse the knife out of the tasteful panelling, but no change: it remains deeply imbedded, so much so that even as Zebastian jumps and tugs, and pushes a booted heel against the door, and causes minor aesthetic damage and ends up kind of half dangling there scrambling to remove the offensive blade from the luxe establishment? No dice.

Zeb is many things. Strong is not one of them. Or focused -- guess he thinks nobody is here? Sure: that saves him the embarrassment of being seen unable to un-stab the door.

---<Catalina>---------------

"My thoughts?" Catalina asks, looking over the room. Her eyes flick, and she shakes her head to Inanna at the offer of introductions, taking a moment to answer while her mind races "No introductions, thank you. I think I know most of you, and I'm sure the rest of you will know me after this"

Her smile ie warm, easy, confident, as she continues. "You don't want Justice. None of you do. Because, my friends, you're a bunch of assholes who parasitize off the world as a whole and the good people of this city in particular. If you're going to talk about Justice, you're going to need to come to terms with everything you've taken from every one of your victims coming back to bite you in the ass, and I don't think any of you have asses that can take that" She twists, glancing at her own figure, in the fitted trousers and the cropped jacket.

"So unless you're wanting to talk about a version of Justice that starts outside of yourself, you don't want it. And if your idea of Justice doesn't start with yourself, then you still don't want it, you just want to be immune to consequences" She flashes a bright smile "That do you, Reverend, Inanna?"

---<Spade>---------------

Spade threw the knife so it's not like he's going to hide it, he's carrying an armory enough for three or four people in his waistband and basically showing it off since his shirt is only buttoned at the neck and his pocketed hands hold it open. Minus one throwing knife now of course, which Zeb is retrieving for him. Perhaps in response to Cat he sniffs, "Weapons aren't allowed?" Apparently Spade never got the rules memo.

---<Blaze>---------------

Blaze smiles widely, "But Catalina, my darling. FUCK the /people/." He gives her an insolent salute.

---<Cassie>---------------

"I did. And you know what I'd like even more? You not -throwing knives around-! Like... wtf, dude?" Cassie fuzzes at Spade, giving him a miffed little look still lined in slight, friendly amusement despite her clearly being serious about what she said. The petite blonde huffs and shakes her head a little as if in disbelief, glancing to Nisha and sharing a little look, but her smile is back on her lips once her eyes settle on Catalina. The late arrival gets a friendly smile and a faint upnod. Hey." Her attention is quickly pulled to the door however, when Zebastian starts wrestling with the knife to try and get it free, looking at him struggle with it for a moment before glancing back to Spade with a miffed little scowl, mouthing the word 'asshole'

---<Inanna>---------------

Inanna laughs a little at Cat's words. "Fuck yeah. Preach." She rolls her shoulders. "See," She points out. "I do dare say that you got a fine point. But I also do dare say that we are not necessarily the worst. And," she adds. "We have ways of being merciful and just, without risking the masquerade, and with looking after our herd. We can be more than parasites. We can be symbiotes. You missed my spiel on restorative justice earlier. Hell, on any justice." This goes for both Cat and Blaze. "And naw, motherfucker," See, she can be polite, too, Spade. Ina points to Blaze. "Fuck the police, not the people. You can't say you're on the side of the proles and say fuck the people with your next breath. That would make you a goddamn hypocrite," She exhales, and gives a gentle shrug.

She's not getting involved in rules being explained to Spade - it's her first night here with anyone of consequence, and people seem to be handling the matter just fine. Raising a brow at Zeb's struggle, but fuck, not like she could get that thing out.

---<Zebastian>---------------

Zebastian is struggling - it is true, he really is struggling. Is he /acknowledging/ he's struggling? No - he remains entirely oblivious (apparently) to the room and all the glances and conversations within - he's just gliding through the experience, with the sheer will of determination that eventually whatever laws of physics that embedded that knife so thoroughly into the door will change, just for Zeb, just because he willed them to - not with his fragile and weak body, but his extraordinarily unique mind.

It is, of course, a complete delusion.

Doesn't stop Zebastian from continuing, though - struggle and all.

---<Nisha>---------------

Nisha gives a big fake pout once Inanna says fuck the police. The gangrel in her mockery attire, but she's soon beaming and watching the conversation unfold. Adjusting her cute little officers hat with taloned finger tips. Mirrored shades lowered to gawk the scene.

---<Cassie>---------------

"I haven't ever taken anything from anyone." Cassie casually quips back with a sweet smile at what Catalina says, pushing a stray lock of blonde back behind her ear.

---<Spade>---------------

Spade replies to Cassie's huff with a shake of his head, "That fucker is lucky he got to the door. Don't start that shit with me, I've given him chance after chance. Now he's gonna try to tell me I'm the one taking freedom of speech away, after him and Hall and Karner's fucking parade last time? Fuck all that." Slipping back into cholo mode, Spade's all over the place emotively, losing his usual chill vibe just a little. But when Cassie finally mouths 'asshole' at him he snorts and blows her a kiss. No comments on Justice or the righteousness of drinking blood to survive, Spade turns and heads over to Zeb at the door, reaching past him and plucking the knife out of the door, then leaving it in Zeb's grip. Knife released, he turns and walks back, giving Zeb the opportunity to stick or throw that knife in Spade's back, if so desired. Throughout the whole interaction with the door-knife, he very specifically doesn't address or even look at Zeb or his struggles, and once back to the group, attempts to resume his chill, hands in pockets stance of the pre-Lascaux era.

---<Catalina>---------------

"No, fuck you, Reverend" Catalina responds with the same good cheer "You're trying to start a shooting war, and before you do that, half the people in this room would be happy to put you down. So I seriously suggest you reassess your priorities to avoid turning a little religious movement into a terrorist cult, because I promise, not only will the mortal authorities be on you far more quickly than you think, but you are not smart enough to get away with it and keep your involvement out of the eyes of authority. And then you get investigated. Pray it's the new boss doing it, and not the FBI."

She winks to Cassie, glancing over the diminutive thing, before she looks back to Inanna.

"I include myself in it. But hey, when I get hungry, people get a couple of days paid sick leave. Exchange, not take. People need to look at their own motivations, and usually, they're it's the type of thinking that gets lost somewhere just around the u-bend."

---<Jay>---------------

"Without a sense of justice, the Movement would've never been birthed to begin with. We'd be nothing but mindless beasts. Might as well throw all of our free will and free thinking out the window, then." Jay is completely on the opposite end of the opinion. "Besides, many of us were never asked to become like this to begin with, and many still don't want to die just because they were turned into quote-unquote monsters. Although, if I have to say, we're just a different... breed of humans, at this point. Mutants, supernaturals, devils, children of Caine, whatever the fuck you wanna believe we are."

He maneuvers across the room, towards no where in particular. "Besides, what's wrong with being a parasite? There have always been parasites in this entire world, they're apart of the cycle of nature, and I believe so have our kind been for centuries end. There's nothing wrong with that. Humans aren't so much better, neither. Don't they say that they're a parasite to their own world nowadays, considering how fucked up Earth is turning out to be 'cause of them?"

---<Inanna>---------------

"Yeah," Ina laughs at Nisha's pout. "With a big fuck-off dildo," Giving the stripper cop a wink, and a bigger grin, giving Cassie a dubious look, but shaking it off, glancing back to Zeb, sighing in relief as Spade helps out with the knife.

Cat gets another little smile and a nod. "Exchange, not take. Mutual Aid. I might take a pint of someone's blood on the sly but I make sure they're taken care of in turn, you know." She spreads her hands. "And if the worst should happen, and someone does die - that's where the restorative part comes in," She notes. Looking over at Jay. "Neither of us asked to be born Black neither, but we take our pride and fucking strength from that, don't we?" She points out, punching twice over her heart. "We cope, we deal, we thrive within our circumstances because ultimately - and that is what the Movement is about - we have the fucking choice, and together, we ARE strong enough to thrive." She points out. "And fuck, you heard me talk before Jay. This is why I'm saying we intertwined with the Kine. We gotta help them clean up their own act, because if they go we go, you know?"

---<Zebastian>---------------

Zebastian's head turns, as Spade draws near - not looking at him, not looking away from the knife, but acknowledging the Southsider coming up from over yonder. Not startled then - and not startled as they yank the knife out of the door. 'They'. Sure. Zeb loosened it - helped - they workshopped it - this is //teamwork//, =collaboration=. See? //It has been willed//.

Or whatever.

But Spade has not looked at him, and Zebastian has not looked at Spade - or anyone else, how very wallflower of the Malkavian. He only has eyes for the knife - rolling it over in his palm once, catching the light off the blade. Damage to the discreet door? Ignored - he just turns, drifts towards where Mae is lurking half-hidden behind the disused bar --- not joining in on the conversation between Catalina, Inanna, Cassie, Nisha, Jay and Blaze - but perhaps listening, as Zeb takes a zoment for zimself.

---<Catalina>---------------

"I wasn't there at the birth of the Movement" Catalina tells Jay "I doubt you were. So we can't claim the motivations at the beginning, only our own motivations for joining - or remaining a part of it. In my case, I don't fancy spending eternity bent at the feet of those who did see the Movement's birth. Justice has nothing to do with it. It's everything to do with the freedom to live without that level of societal disdain." She pauses, with a few, deliberate breaths. Speaking needs air, after all. "Most people these days are the ones being abused by parasites. They work and certainly don't see fair return on their labor. If they do all they can to live well, and still get screwed by people born better off than they - do you blame them?"

She grins as Blaze responds, and she steps forward once. "This isn't faux indignation. This is you being a very real threat to my continued survival. If you do start that hot war, the Tower will crush us even if you do take it down. I've been polite. If you don't think of yourself as one of the people - because I do - then who do you think of yourself as? Someone above them? Sending them off to their deaths for your amusement?"

---<Blaze>---------------

Blaze rolls his eyes. "Did I or did I not say I was building something to edge our position when the stupid Peace was OVA?! Why do you keep lying and making it seem like I'm going tonight and burn down their Elysium? Are you dense or just a simple cunt, Catalina."

---<Spade>---------------

Back in the group Spade listens to the group discussion, catching himself back up to where it got to, finding something to comment about, "People will die in a war, if there is one. But avoiding a fight for fear of death just lets your oppressor continue to oppress you. You can sit on the Westside and pretend there aren't people fighting and dying for your freedom just a few miles away, but that doesn't change the fact that they are. Every night. The Tower in LA isn't the problem, nor is it worth being afraid of. The Sword is what people need to actually be worried about, on a nightly basis. Those fuckheads will ash you in the street. The Tower? Even Abrams and Santa Monica can wait a decade or two."

---<Nisha>---------------

Nisha stands slowly, feeling a change in the ambience and reading the room. "I should probably get going before I get my latex panties in a twist.", the cop said while saying her goodbyes. "Hit me up laters Cassie.", throwing a peace sign to Jay, "Stay safe."

"Inanna always a pleasure, great insights. We should talk more.", pausing to look to Catalina and Blaze speak. Nibbling her bottom lip, "Well said, Catalina and nice seeing you.", walking back to the security check point and arming up.

"Blaze ... do as thou wilt.", snapping the magazine back into her 9mm Glock. Turning to Spade as she tucked away pepper spray, and handcuffs. "Your lucky Zeb didn't have me arrest you. I heard Anarch jail sucks.", twirling the cuffs on her finger and snatching up the baton.

"Zeb, thank you for having me. I had a blast as always. Need help with knife, or you got it homie?", walking to the door and opening it. Whether the Malk was attached or not, like a coat hanger.

---<Inanna>---------------

The crotch grab from the limey out of Hollywood gets a scoff from Inanna. "...Geeze, fuck did she do, fuck your mum?" She asks. She considers Spade and Zeb, carefully - their little communion is seven shades of weird, after all. But the shouty people are better at grabbing her attention.

"I dunno anything about starting a hot war, but one, we're still fucking people, and some of us are off the people, and more of us should be of the people," She points out. "And I agree with Cat, here. We live to see the Movement succeed in giving us freedom. We change the world every day, and we can change the Movement to fit the times - like Cassie said, things change, and two centuries ago, people thought different about what it all means. So shit, we adapt, we change, we make tomorrow better every day. And yeah,"

She nods over at Spade. "Sometimes that means fighting, bleeding quite direct." She notes. "Stopping those who would fuck us all up."

She looks to Nisha as she rises, and gives an upnod. "I'll give you a call or something, we can find somewhere hot to get all religious. Theological. Divine." Another wink and a grin.

She stretches again, rises. Not to leave, but to pace, to take a step over towards Cat. "We are in the fight. Just, we pick our moments when we can. To maximize the chance of success.

Looking to Blaze again. "You prepping your shit for war? Be ready to send your soldiers east."

---<Jay>---------------

Jay has his eyes squinted between Catalina and Blaze, hands dipped in his pockets as he watches. "Whoa, whoa, calm down here. Everyone gets to say whatever they wanna say, but no one's gotta fuck off just because their opinion doesn't match yours, it takes out all the fun when you can just keep yellin and yappin at each other." He shrugs. "Though, if you feel like you're on the edge of it, do step out politely before you go batshit crazy and try to kill everybody in the room, folks." Trying his best to act as the host on behalf of Zebastian, and not doing such a good job at it, while the Malkavian's composing himself.

He turns to Inanna. "Right, exactly my point. None of us were asked to be this, be that, but we're still people. We might not be humans no more, but we're as much people as the humans we were." No comment on the Kine situation, however. Then to Catalina. "No, we weren't, but we all felt the spirit of the Movement, and it was just. It was, and still is the best chance we have at justice and equality, from the shackles of the Sects and the Elders. Jeremy MacNeil had the right idea, so did Nines, and I was there when Nines was still around. You can't tell me what he was fighting for wasn't just, and that's what I believe in, along with so many other Free Staters."

The peace sign is reflected to Nisha as she leaves.

---<Catalina>---------------

"Ta ta" Catalina nods to Nisha, before she continues her responses. "To explain, Spade, this fellow is busy training and arming a bunch of religious extremists, aiming them at the Tower, and expecting that he'll not only avoid scrutiny, not only avoid anyone else subverting them, but that they won't go off half-cocked. My company has seen this before; people lose control far too quickly, and things happen by accident."

She summarises quickly, her hands quite still, and her eyes on Blaze now. "I'm used to people fighting and dying for my freedom. I'm used to reading the AARs, as well." As she continues to respond to Spade "But the tactics that this idiot is using are not stable. As for those who are fighting; my offer is open to them, same as every other Anarch. They need the support, above the table or under it, I've offered it."

To Inanna, to Jay, still fixed, she responds with "I'm not tossing personal insults. And no, I've never had a thing for the English. The pearls tend to be an impediment to bite down on. I'd certainly think of myself on the side of the general population - I don't have the arrogance to assume I'm better than everyone else"

Then, only once she's responded to the others, does she respond to Blaze. "I'm going to suggest, politely, you apologise. That was uncalled for, beyond rude. Does it bother you being called out by a woman? If not, why are you bringing gendered insults into it? I find you smug, self-aggrandising, and - oh, about the same as a dozen petty leaders who drank their own kool-aid. Never get high on your own supply."

---<Cassie>---------------

"I think our differences -are- our strength, and what, hopefully, keeps each of us from crawling too far up our own asses along the way." Cassie chips in with in comment to what Jay and Inanna say, a pensive hint to her tone before she resumes chewing her gum. A lingering look and a sweet little smile is sent Spade's way when he returns from having helped pry loose the knife, a glance sent Zebastian's way too afterwards to check on him, but her eyes snap to Blaze when he addresses Catalina like that, widening for a moment in, at least mild, surprise, brows lifting faintly and the ghost of an amused smirk tugging at her lips as she listens to the back and forth, looking between the two.

Switching her focus to Nisha for a moment when the Latex Officer gets up to leave, her resting-cute-face smile widens, and she gives the faux-officer a light swat on the bum. "Later, Nish. Talk to you soon." she titters and gives a playful wink. And then... then it's back to the, judging by her expression, quite amusing exchange of opinions currently happening."

---<Inanna>---------------

Inanna crosses her arms, and gives a little nod in agreement with Cassie, with Jay. Raising a brow as Cat and Blaze go at it, listening to the pair. Canting her head again, glancing to, well, the people with established authority. Which, with Nisha leaving, seems to be Jay and Spade. Oh, and also checking in on Zeb.

---<Blaze>---------------

Blaze seems to have lost his enthusiam for this fight. He searches his pockets for his cigarettes. "Don't scold me like a child, and I won't ave to get my duff up. " He lights the cigarette and takes a soothing drag. "I'll apollogize but if you start up wif me again, I'll sent it back in spades." His grey eyes are focused sharply on Catalina sharply but he shows in every other way that he's ready to deescalate if she is.

---<Spade>---------------

Spade and Zeb, the Southside Westside buddy cop procedural that just never got greenlit by Hollywood. Because Hollywood is full of short sighted Boomers, clearly. Nobody tell Spade he's a Boomer too. When Nisha warns him about being arrested he turns to her and sticks his hands out, wrists together ready for the cuffs, "You could at least try after teasing me all night in that cop costume Nisha." He doesn't seem to think Nisha will be coming over to cuff him, since he drops the posture immediately after bidding her goodbye with an upnod.

He's turning back to the main group and nods to what Jay says, "When Nines is back, things'll start changing for the better again. Until then, I'm just gonna keep the Sword east of the river. If we're lucky and smart, maybe push them back or out of the city. But what's the beef with the Tower? Yes they're all cunts. Yes they've got no right to be in LA. But right now, they're not the cunts ashing people in the street." He pauses for a breath and shrugs, "Now if they start fucking with Anarchs, sure, things will change, but for now they're closer to us than the Sabbat is."

He eyes Blaze when Catalina levels that explanation and upnods at the man to give him his platform, "She right? You deadset on building up a rabble to tear down the Tower? That's just trouble we don't need right now."

---<Zebastian>---------------

Does Zebastian need checking on? Look at them; standing by Mae over there, all perfectly calm and dreamy faced, gazing on the edge of a knife with quiet contemplation. Totes chill, totes. Maybe a little concerned? Something a touch preoccupied, maybe. Malkavian Business, no doubt - nothing to worry oneself with.

Zeb isn't /so/ twisted that he's sprouted antennae or anything, though -- the trill of conversation over yonder has filtered back into the brain of his, and pale peepers finally pivot away from the gleam of that blade and over to the group -- interest piqued, but motormouth kept in neutral; idling away, quiet as a little wallflower. So goes the many moods of Malkavians.

"..." Silent, but a bare whisper of a smile as Zeb watches the group -- only to keep quiet and curious, following the flow of conversation without interruption.

---<Jay>---------------

"All I'm saying is this: whether you call yourself Anarch or no, Westsider or not, the rule of 'you reap what you sow' applies to any situation. You help people out, even if that shit wasn't born out of your genuinity, it's a safe bet to say that people would also have your back. You don't, and when shits hit the fucking fan you start scrambling for help, you have no right to be upset when your problems are placed on the bottom of the list. Sure we fight for each other, but we take care of our own first, of the people who actually care about us to begin with. That's why you will see me being so fucking vehement about helping each other out and not being the selfish fucks you are. I won't beat you down and drag you to the frontlines, but when that time comes, just keep in mind what I said." Again Jay sucks his teeth, a shake of his head. "Don't wanna have to say 'I told you so', yeah?"

After that little speech of his, Jay has his eyes focused on Blaze, silent and unblinking after all the accusations being directed at the Ventrue, waiting for a confirmation.

---<Catalina>---------------

"He says he's building them, arming them, preparing them for when the Tower attack us" Catalina tells Spade "I've tried to explain that expecting a bunch of religious fanatics to hold back on their attacks because he doesn't think it's time yet might not be the most stable solution. Further, the notion the Tower doesn't really need to attack us - given we're both at active war with the Sword - seems to have bypassed him, and he'd rather stoke trouble between the two of us. I don't pretend to know what type of person would do that, but I'm sure you have thoughts, and for once, you and Abrams might agree on something"

There's a ghost of a chuckle at that idea.

"I was asked my opinion. I gave it. I responded to you in particular when you said, and I quote, fuck the people, as though being on the side of the authoritarians or the elite is a winning argument when you're in a room that doesn't identify as being among either of those things." She tells Blaze quietly "So yes. I will continue to drive at you that I think what you're doing is an awful idea, because security is my business. Now, if you don't intend to apologise, based on what I've said, let me know and we'll move forward from there."

---<Blaze>---------------

Blaze explains, "I'm building a small group of black blockers and training them so that we have something to run with when the new Prince comes to smash the statis. It will start with the appointment of a new Scourge but I guarantee you the Warlocks of the Tower are brewing something obscene and foul as we speak and will unleash it on us while we stand around with our pants down.

---<Inanna>---------------

Ina looks between Blaze and Cat. She gives nods of agreement with what Jay is saying. Then clears her throat. "Like I said, aim your guys east. You can still do whatever you do, but you'll be able to pull the trigger quicker... And whomever of your people make it through will be veterans IF the Tower decides to push against us." She notes. "And if you need help with black block shit, I've done medic stuff in demonstrations in the past," She notes. "So, you know." She gestures around the room. "As Jay said, we look after each other. We got each other's back. And we warn each other. From ourselves, or any other threat."

---<Jay>---------------

"Hey dude," Jay tries to catch Blaze's attention with an upnod, or maybe several of them. "I don't mind anybody building their own security, cult of personality, doomsday preppers, whatever, aight? Everyone has a right to be fucking paranoid these days, especially when you have Sabbat maniacs so close to enacting another fucking Siege of LA. You might not be building complete suicidals to charge mindlessly at the Tower like she's accusing you to be here, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, yeah? Just know that if you actually ARE planning to do that, you're gonna get a buckload of shit on you and our head, and that's all I need you to know and understand, aight?"

The Brujah nods to his own remark, still as nonchalant as he's ever been this whole night. "Just... keep your group in check and no one's gotta see the sunlight, yeah? Cause if that happens, if the Tower or Abrams don't get to you first, A LOT of other people will. Maybe even us. You'll get a shitload of fucking enemies on your ass, so just keep that in mind, for God's sake."

---<Zebastian>---------------

Ah, there it is: the little shadow of concern returning to Zebastian's face, as he glances over to Blaze as he speaks - brief study of the guy, before those glacial blues skip to Catalina and Spade in turn, then back to Inanna and Jay, Cassie. Still no interruptions -- just quiet consideration, nodding gently to something said - though it's hard to get a read on what, given Zebastian doesn't seem perfectly in sync to time at the moment.

---<Spade>---------------

Spade looks at Blaze like he just sprouted a third eye on his forehead, a mix of incredulous and mystified. "The new Prince isn't going to smash the status quo, he's gonna sit on his throne, look around and realise just how fucked he is, and he's gonna be quiet. He's not gonna be a dumbass who immediately starts a war he can't win. The Camarilla doesn't send a moron to LA, they send the craftiest motherfucker who's old enough to pretend to authority that they can find. The Tower holds downtown, well, most of it. Yeah it's rich and there's plenty of mortal weight they can throw around, but they ain't got the people nor the skills to take LA in a ground war. They need us to even have a chance against the Sabbat, and currently they're all wetting their panties about Koreatown. So yeah, just chill the fuck out on anti-tower rhetoric, there's plenty of time for that."

---<Cassie>---------------

Cassie silently follows the conversation, leaned back in her seat while languidly chewing her gum, nodding faintly in agreement with what Jay says, any amusement on her features replaced by something a little more serious and thoughtful as she listens to each speaker in turn. There's a little flash of... something playing over her pretty features for a short moment, and a lingering glance sent Spade's way and then one to Zeb. She doesn't look fully sure what to think.

---<Blaze>---------------

Blaze nods to Spade. "Ok.. it seems like you know what you're talking about. I need to change my plans to take on an anti-sabbat tactical model. Interesting. I confess I don't know nearly as much about the Sabbat as I do the Tower. That needs to change."

---<Shawna>---------------

A new arrival appears in the private member's lounge and pauses just within the entrance to gain her bearings while looking around. Shawna Weber is dressed in a battered leather jacket that is worn over a Kevlar vest that itself is worn snugly over a white men's t-shirt. Skinny jeans and 'Vans' sneakers complete the outfit.

After surveying the room, the slender blonde makes her way over toward the disused bar where Zebastian and Mae linger and she offers the pair a nod that is more chin than head movement. "...hey."

---<Catalina>---------------

"Most of what I know about the Sabbat's suspect, as it comes from my sire, who couldn't count to two if he was busy having a drink" Catalina says dismissively "But bad news, religious fanatics, who want to screw us all over about sums it up. The Tower might not like us, but they tacitly accept we have a right to exist. The Sword does not. They want our heads."

She gives a little shrug. Jay and Spade get a small nod each as they talk "Good advice. Look, if people want to organise stuff - well, that's my speciality" She flashes a smile "So do make sure our people on the front have my details and I'll see about propping them up with heavier security details in their area."

---<Jay>---------------

Jay's head hangs, perhaps you'd hear him heaving out a sigh of relief if he still had to do that, but he doesn't. He's in fact very relieved, however, upon hearing Blaze. "Yeah, dude, it's all good. Lots of newcomers and other people who're just starting to peek their heads out of their tiny hidey holes to figure out what the fuck's happenin, so it's okay to make some mistakes here and there. But yeah, chill out on the whole... anti-Tower suicidals, maybe in a few years when the Prince and his Scourges start acting up," he coughs, "but for now, we don't need any more heat on us. Shit that explosive can get more than the Tower's attention, the kind that can get the fucking government and its agencies involved. Imagine if the FBI starts dumping shit on us?"

---<Zebastian>---------------

Zeb tips his head when Cassie looks at him -- a very pale whisper of a smile, like he were sharing a prelude to a secret - then his shoulder rolls, and the Norwegian kid glances back down at the knife in his hand, catching violet light from above. Aw, he's like bashful or something.

So imagine his gentle surprise, when Zebastian finds Shawna wandering on over. She too gets a soft half-smile and an up-nod, before he mms in reply to the 'hey'. Besides them? Mae also nods in a mute hello -- and, after a moment? Zeb seems to recognise that the ability to speak is an option for him: "...Been interesting," Softly chimed to Shawna, as he turns the throwing knife over in his hands. "Lots of lightning, lately -- I can see it light up the night, but can't find where it's struck. You had any joy?"

---<Blaze>---------------

Blaze rises and slips into his coat. He takes one more drag and crushes it out in the ashtray. "I'm fucking off home." he anounces tiredly. "I apologize, Catalina." he says with a grieving resolution. "Good night everybody. Jay, I look forward to future encounters." He head out.

---<Shawna>---------------

"Nah..." Shawna starts while lifting a hand to furiously rub her nose with he heel of her palm, "...no joy. Just normal shit back in Griffith Park. Quiet, like that shit before a storm, you know?" The tall and lanky blonde settles in beside Zebastian and Mae before she turns her gaze toward the others. Blaze's departure is watched before the stoic tomboy's attention moves to Catalina and Inanna, next. "New faces, huh?"

---<Zebastian>---------------

Zebastian mms, nodding - something somber there, as he considers Shawna's words. "...Yeah, I know. I feel it. Can't get away from it - on the edges, always. It has been, you know? A while, since I walked on snow - sometimes, only the crust gets hard, and you think you can walk - only the softer, beneath, it can collapse - and there is this sound, when the ice-top starts to break -- it is like a ticking. That sound, on the edges."

Little smile -- then Zeb turns a fraction - hand lifted, giving Catalina something of a wave, before a rather shy smile is given to Inanna and he looks back down at the throwing knife. Twists it between his fingers, then dips his head in Shawna's direction, speaking softly; "Westside has its treasures - and they must be found out." ...Is that his answer to 'new faces'? Yes. A look back, then he nearly laughs - adding to the Crowgirl; "We've been discussing justice -- did you know? It is very contextual."

---<Jay>---------------

"I wouldn't put it past him, you look the type." And as insulting as that probably sounds, those words came exactly out of Jay's mouth. He only looks at Spade, cranes his head aside and shrugs his shoulders. "Ventrues, if he really is one, can get weird like that. Even weirder than Malks sometimes. I mean, you don't gotta be Malkavian to have a mental illness, no? What's that... autism, or whatever... I don't know, I'm no fuckin doctor." He says, spewing some bull out of his mouth. "I don't even think the whole accent was real, shit was too jumbled up to sound legit. But hey, those kinda people exist, man. You've never met those kinda people back when you were alive? Just gotta do your best to deal with their bullshit."

Jay upnods Catalina in acknowledgment. "Yeah, Ventrues. Everyone knows Blue Bloods usually have really high pride and ego, and those two things they treasure. Stay safe."

---<Spade>---------------

Spade shrugs, not making any comment on how Blaze only responded to him and nobody else. At least not verbally addressing it. He glances over to Inanna and shrugs, "Come by and get it, I dunno what the fuck to do with it." Isn't he supposed to be a criminal? Doesn't even know how to deal smack. To Jay he shrugs, accepting that he looks like a type without questioning which type, "I guess so, was just a real weird conversation with the Mary Poppins shit too." When Catalina starts making the polite excuses to go he tips his head up, "Just a sec Catalina. When you came by my bar, I got the sense afterwards that you let Lydon know about what I was doing with Joe. You got any rebuttal to that? Doesn't seem like a very neighbourly thing to do, informing to the Tremere." His voice and attitude remains chill, despite the content of his question.

---<Shawna>---------------

Shawna's clear-blue gaze falls on Inanna as she introduces herself and there is a sudden rise of social anxiety and a sense of shyness coming from the otherwise stoic blonde when she replies, "Hey. Shawna. Weber. Gangrel of Griffith Park. Hollywood Anarchs, though I used to Warden for Westside... before the Cruces."

That gaze lingers on Inanna before returning to Zebastian. Shawna arches a brow at him and almost smiles. Almost. "Justice? For who?" Lips open to offer more words but Jay and Spade both draw her attention. That shyness is slowly replaced with a show of curiosity.

---<Cassie>---------------

"Have a good night, Reverend. Thank you for joining us tonight, it was a pleasure meeting you, and hearing what you had to say." Cassie offers when Blaze stands up and offers his farewells, and apologizes to Cat, a pleasant smile on her lips as she watches him head for the door and then looks between the rest of those gathered. "It's amazing how smooth things can go when no one is barking out crude insults or throwing blades around, dun you think?" she asks of no one in particular, clearly rhetorical, a bratty-teasing little look sent Spade's way at the mention of knives. Looking over to Shawna and Zeb at the bar, a cheery little smile and a wiggle of fingers is sent the crowgrel's way. There's a little giggle at the mention of smack, and the Inanna's reply, before the short blonde looks to Catalina with amusement still lingering on her features. "Hopefully it won't get too busy.." she remarks to the security expert, grinning a little. The comments about Ventrue makes her snicker, not saying anything but seemingly not in completely disagreement, at the very least.

---<Inanna>---------------

"Sounded more like someone given very English voice training and then told to lay it on thick by a director," Ina agrees with Jay, with a smirk. Then gives an upnod to Spade. "I got connections, I can get it sorted for you. What kind of payment you prefer?" She asks, leaning on the counter, considering the fair trade goods on display, then giving a glance and a smile up to Zeb. "You know, you're alright," She tells him, then looks over at Cat "Yo, I still need to talk to you about, um. Hiring space and shit." She points out. But she's not gonna make the girl stick around - besides, she got stuff going with Spade. Instead, she focuses on Shawna. "Noce to meet you," She offers. "Warden for Westside, huh?" She shrugs. "Justice for all, isn't that the goal?" She suggests. "I had a whole spiel. I'll repeat it if you want, maybe with some minor variations..."

Cassie gets another grin. "Hey, I'm all for a litte knifeplay between consenting parties," She retorts. "Or, you know, the insults. Between consenting parties." Laughing again, and giving a small shrug. "We all got our parts to play."

---<Catalina>--------------- "Yeah, that would be a no" Catalina tells Spade, shaking her head "I sure as hell didn't inform on you, since I wouldn't put my people in harm's way if I was. They stayed there until you asked me to call them off." She pauses a moment "But we weren't the only ones there. Besides, you didn't even tell me what it was about. What would I have told them?" She asks with a shrug

---<Zebastian>---------------

Zebastian ... glimpses, Jay's way - does he say anything? No, he just smiles subtly - head tipped, whole air understated and chill af -- before a faint haze of confusion drifts, glancing from Spade to Inanna and back to Spade. Smack?! Well, that isn't Zeb's problem now, is it... Is it? No! Moving on...

"That's the question." Zebastian chimes softly to Shawna, on the matter of Justice -- though, he tips head to the side. Studying her for a moment. "...There has been concern, on he way some are looking at Caitiff and Thin Bloods, harder than the way some usually look at Anarchs..."

No further explanation, Zebastian just glances back to Spade and Catalina, before Inanna's comment has him giving her a wink -- only for interest to be piqued by... never mind that. The knife is turned over in his fingers daintily, considered thoughtfully. A smile blooms. A beat, and Zeb looks back to Shawna again, adding softly; "She's a very beautiful and generous conversationalist - if you take her up on the offer, yes? I'm sure she'll explain more elegantly than I could."

---<Spade>---------------

Spade regards Catalina evenly, processing her rebuttal and then nods and makes a small hmm sound, "Alright, fair enough Catalina. Have a good night." It's a far cry from his knife-throwing antics of earlier in the salon, a much more chill exchange. He catches Cassie's look along with the knife tease and just grins back at her, completely unembarassed by his own vibe damaging actions. To Inanna he just shrugs, "Take it, I don't give a shit. Ain't worth fuck all to me, I don't need every kine in my neighbourhoods fucked up on smack. The Free State doesn't need to deal drugs to fund itself." With Catalina moving off to leave, and the majority of everyone else broken up from the initial group, Spade moves over to Cassie and scoops her up with an arm around her back, and walks her over to the bar to create a new conversational group, keeping a hand in the small of her back even after arriving. "Yo Shawna. You know that fuck Abrams is no Anarch. You could be, if you want to be."

---<Catalina>---------------

Catalina gives Spade a look for another few moments, and then shakes her head as she leaves, heading out with a lifted hand to the others in farewell

---<Shawna>---------------

Shawna's gaze moves from Zebastian back to Inanna and back. "Hey... I'm no fucking politician. I'm just a girl who plays with birds." A glance toward Spade and that shyness seems to fade completely. "I could be? There requirements I have to meet to get your approval, huh? Even after everything? Nah, man. I know who I am now." Another furious rubbing of her nose while she watches Catalina's exit, then Shawna is focusing on Cassie and turning shy, again. "Um, hey, girl..."

---<Inanna>---------------

"The Free State doesn't," Inanna agrees with Spade. "But I know some people who might be willing to trade favours for it, and if I can do that, then, fuck, I'm going to make use of it. Better that someone gains." She quirks her lips. "If you feel morally opposed, fuck, dump it down a drain," She suggests. Rolling her shoulders again, waving after Cat and looking over at Shawna and Zeb as they discuss, her brow furrowed. "Seems like things might be dying down, some."

Shooting a small grin to Shawna. "Like, figuratively or literally play with birds?" She asks, and looks from Shawna to Cassie, giving the latter another upnod before she looks back to Zeb. "So where were we?"

---<Spade>---------------

Spade shrugs one casual shoulder back at Shawna, "You know there's requirements Shawna and it's not my approval but the Movement's approval you need. I know you're already abiding by most of them, so leave off picking the fight over phrasing. Everybody and their fuckin' mother knows I ain't a speechwriter by now." On the topic of smack he shakes his head, "Nah I'm not morally opposed, let people do whatever the fuck they want to themselves. If you can get something out of it go ahead, just don't force it on anyone and we're good."

---<Zebastian>---------------

Zebastian nods to what Inanna says, absentmindedly turning the knife over in his hands - little compulsions, rote-action as he smiles dreamily and chimes; "Well the night is still young - but moonlight is burning; it is generous, no? So many share time, but we've all got business - and pleasure - to get wrapped up in -- but just to have a moment to intersect, ah, a gift."

No comment re: heroin, justice, or the distinctions some people make re: the Anarch contingent -- though Zebastian does give Spade a little look as he speaks to Shawna, expression curious but otherwise inscrutable - glancing back to The Crowgirl of Griffith Park. Oh, he can't help it - a smile twists at the edges of his lips, then he turns, glancing at Jay and Cassie.

Wait, hmm? Looking back to Inanna, Zebastian gives her a look of dreamy consideration - taking a moment to think it over, before he says; "...I think you were sharing, where you've been playing?" He may have gotten off subject.

---<Shawna>---------------

Shawna's clear-blue gaze sweeps back to Inanna and she answers the woman's question with a somber and vacant tone, "You haven't heard 'bout the crows of Griffith Park, have you?" The question must be rhetorical, since the lanky tomboy turns her focus back toward Spade offers him a blank stare as she listens to his reply. "I've fought, bled, and lost more than most. Hollywood or Westside. So I'm not picking a fight when I say that I don't care 'bout the Movement's approval, Spade. Or Abrams'... and especially not the fucking Tower's."

The Gangrel of Griffith Park looks away, at that, toward Inanna when Zebastian changes the subject for them.

---<Jay>---------------

Jay wanders about, looking a little aimless now that the crowd is slowly getting smaller as the night proceeds, but he finds Cassie and approaches. "I'll be in touch, let you know when I'm making my trip to Dans le Rose... or was it L'Ermitage?" He appears confused for a brief moment, but dismisses the thought. "Soon though," he says to her, then pads over to where Zebastian is. "Good party like always, Zeb, but I should be going right now." The others by the bar are notified of his leave as well, eyes fixed on Spade one last time while he tries to do some talking with Shawna, an upnod offered his way if he returns the stare but nothing more. Doesn't look like Jay's willing to participate in his one-eyed friend's efforts tonight. "Stay safe, people."

---<Inanna>---------------

"I have, I'm just making a dumb joke," Inanna replies to Shawna. "It's gonna be Pride in a couple months, after all," She points out with another grin. Stretching idly, and giving Spade a nod of thanks at his offer. Looking to Zeb, and then shrugging. "Alright. I mean, there's that but... Here's my thinking. Consider it the distillation of my opinions and the thoughts shaped by the conversations had tonight." She clears her throat.

"Justice. It does not exist. Not unless we make it so. Like many other things - Community, money, equality. All social constructs. All IMPORTANT FUCKING PARTS of our reality. Some are cool to help abstract trade, like money, but have gotten an oversize importance. Others, well, we all benefit when they exist and are strong, in people's mind and manifest in our groups. So, justice. Morals are, according to some, our innate sense of right and wrong - yet what, exactly, that is changes depending on who you ask. Ethics are the social contract driven by our dominant morals, the things we as a society agree is right and wrong in toto. From this, we derive our sense of Justice - where we can discuss everything from our feeding habits, to the biblical eye for an eye, to the current reforms discussed in terms of restorative justice, in terms of rehabilitatory justice." She points out. "What questions we ask when we seek justice, determine the answers we get. What do we prioritise? The people hurt, and helping them get back together? Ensuring that the offender does not re-offend, looking into their condition, material or otherwise? If so, do we choose to be punitive to extract vengeance and scare off others from doing the same? How scalable is our justice? How bound in principle versus nuance." She spreads her hands. "Me, I've seen punitive justice. And without changing material conditions, we see how it doesn't help, because people are always driven enough by something or other to break the code - be it law, or ethics - to achieve what they think they need, eh?" She sighs.

"So, personally, I believe in building people up. In finding purpose in this world. Community. Taking," She nods to Cassie. "victory in our diversity, be it in body, thought, or ideals, and finding common ground. Raising all boats on a glorious tide, and doing our best to ensure we don't leave anyone behind," She points out. "And this, I feel, IS scalable, whether you're talking bout a Mutual Aid project for the working class who're now working for less, or if you're talking about building up a strong Free State to defend against all comers. We can't just survive..." She exhales. "We need to find the means to thrive. And we can do that TOGETHER." She bows.

"And that's my grand speech, for all y'all. Even if I'm somewhat preaching to the choir."

She lifts two fingers to Jay as he seems to be leaving, too, a peace symbol to see him out.

---<Cassie>---------------

Cassie gives a faint squeak and giggles softly when she's scooped up like that, bapping Spade firmly on the arm and giving him a little -look- but allowing him to lead her over to Shawna and Zeb at the bar, wuick little steps on her tall heels to keep up. "Hii, Shawna" she chirps cheerily, crinkling her nose a little bit with a wide smile. A crurious, lingering little look shared with Zeb, no words spoken. Probably just checking that he's ok and, at least mostly, back to normal after his knifey adventures. Well... normal might not be the best choice of words.. more 'like himself', then.

The comment to Shawna that 'she could be an Anarch too' earns the Fangbanger a sharp little elbowing to the side and another little -look-, followed by a faint huff. Her smile quickly returns, tho, as she looks back to the others, grinning faintly at Inanna. "Very literally." she comments, leaving it at that since Shawna is right there to further elaborate if she should want to.

Turning her attention to Jay when he comes over, she looks up at him with a smile. "Dans le Rose, I imagine, but it's on the same grounds as the hotel, so... hard to go wrong. Just give me a text first, we'll figure out what's best. We'll talk soon, yea? Keep Venice chill!" She giggles, cause it's Cassie so there's just a whole lot of giggling most the time, and that's just a fact of life. Attention snapping back to Inanna when she takes the proverbial floor again, she listens quietly, smiling and nodding more than a few times as she listens.

---<Spade>---------------

Spade hmms again and shrugs to Shawna, slipping in before Inanna takes the stage too much, "Don't have to be an Anarch either Shawna." Jay gets an upnod of farewell, no harsh vibes in not joining in to dogpile the Gangrel of Griffith Park with the whole recruitment spiel, "Take it easy Jay." Cassie's elbow in his side gets a side-eye from him and then a slim shrug, but he's apparently not commenting past what he's already said, just nodding to some of Inanna's distilled opinions.

---<Zebastian>---------------

Zebastian does not comment on what Shawna has to share, though he does look at her - expression ... complicated, under a dreamy caul. Fond smile sure, but something almost like a sympathy - or pain? Complicated. Drifting... Turning to give Cassie a silent exchange as she's twirled on over by Spade; amused, touch indulgent, and oh-do-dreamy... Do they need to talk? Apparently not, just share a moment. It's only when Jay speaks that he seems to jerk back into animation -- giving him and upnod, and some abstract hand gesture that might be a wave or raised fist of solidarity, if he wasn't brandishing a knife in the process.

Light glints off the blade, and Zebastian seems surprised to find it there - drawn in again, cupped between his hands as they fold neatly by his midsection, as he turns to listen to Inanna. See that? Bright spark, right behind the eyes -- and sure, it could just be the way Zeb tips his head, and the moody and only entirely strategically designed lighting of the place bounces off of 'em... but there's something there, regardless, in the Malkavian's countenance. Voice mute, but solidarity to ideals expressed may as well be screaming.

There is a beat, then another beat, then a third - before Zebastian tips his head, and chimes quietly to Shawna; "...Clear, no?"

---<Shawna>---------------

Shawna's attention turns to whoever speaks in each moment. Inanna's words are listened to though go without any reply from the sad and somber seeming woman, while Cassie's antics draw the hint of a smile. Spade's comment has Shawna shrugging once before she states, matter-of-factly, "I -am- an Anarch, Spade, even if it isn't to the Free State's requirements." Zebastian's question has her turning her gaze away from the Southsider, but only so she can blink. "What's clear? That whole thing on justice? Not to me... just a bunch of fucking words, Zeb."

The tomboy adds quickly for Inanna, her shyness suddenly running rampart, "No offense, of course."

---<Inanna>---------------

"No offense," Inanna agrees with Shawna. "Words are just wind. It's up to us to act, to turn them into reality. We do it in every which way we can, big and small. Inside the system, or out of it," She concludes. Shooting Zeb another little smile, before looking to Spade and Cassie to gauge their reactions. "We all gotta do what we gotta do. But we gotta do more than survive," She repeats, and leans back on the counter again. "But yeah. It can't just be words. It's worth doing for. Worth bleeding for. Worth hurting for. Even worth dying for."

---<Spade>---------------

Spade makes a face at Shawna, not agreeing but apparently choosing not to keep pursuing that particular angle any further. He glances across the other faces, especially Inanna's when she checks out his response and he sighs, "I'm all out of politics for one night, this shit has been exhausting. Yeah, we all gotta take personal responsibility for our actions, but if we don't act we may as well lie down and wait for dawn because that shitstorm is rolling right across LA." He looks back at Shawna and there's the ghost of a shrug, "I'm gonna keep doing what I do, no matter how many people die, because there's no choice but to fight back when someone brings violence to your steps."

---<Zebastian>---------------

"First the concept, then the conception." Zebastian chimes softly to Shawna - not an iota of offence around him, just dreamy contemplation -- looking to Inanna, nodding as she ... explains something similar in, well, much more accessible language. No chatter to add - just a smile, head tipped to the side as he studies her - then Spade as he speaks, studying him for a long moment... another long moment... before he looks to Cassie and Shawna in turn. Nodding, in comfortable silence.

Another beat of silence, then Zebastian closes his eyes. So totes chill. So dreamy. So drifting - drifting away from the bar, away from the other licks gathered without a word - drifting, drifting, drifting towards that discreet exit with its fresh damage. Does he pay it any mind? No -- just rolls the knife around betwene his fingers as he nudges the door open, and drifts out to the utility corridor that leads to a fire exit that leads to a parking lot that leads out into Westside by night.

At some point, Mae has recognised that Zebastian is taking leave. This is her cue to turn, and in the absence of anything even resembling a goodbye to anyone from the Malkavian, Mae gives the group a parting wave as she follows, calling out in that Bel Air drawl to Cassie, Spade, Inanna and Shawna: "Take care~."

---<Shawna>---------------

Shawna offers Inanna a quick chin-nod before she looks toward Spade, again. "Fucker, you know I'll be right there with you, fighting along. The real fights, at least. None of this petty squabbling shit." The slender blonde pauses for a moment before she adds, "I want to go after Jael... his Tzimisce partner, too. That's the only fight I care 'bout." The tomboy falls silent, after that. Zebastian's words earn her attention and his exit, and Mae's, are watched solemnly.

---<Inanna>---------------

Ina stretches, seeing people slip out more and more and more. Considering. "Mm. Maybe it's time to break this party off and go... Fuck I dunno. Put some of those words into action?" She inclines her head, and shrugs. "I'll be there, when the day comes. Like I told you, Spade, I know which side I'm on." She assures. "Might be I am more useful not right on the frontline, but that's not going to stop me from standing there if need be."

---<Cassie>---------------

"I don't think I could have said it much better myself" Cassie chimes in with, smiling. "But I also don't think it's clear, like Shawna says. And I don't know if it's meant to be.. it's not a static thing or objective thing, after all. Which is why it will never be an irrelevant thing to talk about." A beat, long lashes fluttering for a split-second. "I think.." she looks between the others, a little shrug and smile before she continues. "But I think it's also important to not forget the whole 'all roads to hell are paved with good intentions' thing. A lot of bad things.. terrible things, have been done for one greater good or another. Which is why it's good to never stop questioning things. Right?" Her words seem genuine enough, if perhaps a little naive. Clearly more of a little reflection more than really adding much, perhaps. Zeb and Mae are offered a slightly toned down smile when they take their leave and head for the door. "Talk to you soon, babes~" she calls out after them.

---<Spade>---------------

Spade sucks his teeth, "Never doubted that Shawna, I dunno why you think I ever did, so ride down off your high horse. West Hollywood wasn't petty squabbling?" Alright, take the Brujah outta... well shit no, we're in Westside. You just can't get away from it with Spade it seems. "Jael and Hartigan may as well be dead. They're on borrowed time." He blinks after that statement, glancing over to see Zeb and Mae leaving, nodding to them. Then to Inanna with another nod, "I don't expect everyone to run forth and die for the cause, just don't be a useless body." Cassie's continuation just gets continued ongoing nodding from him, "Sure, question everything, we can't tear something down just to erect another worthless tower."